2008 Jeep Patriot

[Wayne M.]

Hey Russell, congrats on the POR tattoo! In a spot like that, it'll take extra long to wear off.
I have a conspiracy theory on this cars rotting away thing. I believe it's certain folks in power (think Elon Musk), working with municipalities to promote the use of these ice treatments to quicken the demise of our vehicles. Sort of like when they did the Gov did the clunker buy back years ago and effectively got rid of lots of older and more polluting vehicles.
They put these chemicals down so hard, it's unreal, and the runoff really is bad for the environment.

 

[JR]

Russell, do you drive your truck through the winter? If so, that one would be a great candidate for an annual KROWN application. (Am I sounding like a broken record yet?)

Wayne, I hear you on the road treatments. There has to be a less invasive option.
Or at a minimum, back off on the application. Let people learn how to drive in inclement weather again. Society has gone full tilt in the fast lane. They expect to run 70mph wether the sun is shining or a blizzard.

 

[jgillott]

I have been very vocal on my use of Ziebart on my vehicles. It is the only way that I am able to keep my vehicles as long as I do. I agree with all of you on the amount of material they put down on our roads. Not only does it destroy the cars, I believe it breaks down the pavement on the roads. Our roads are terrible here. They keep rebuilding them and they are destroyed within a few years.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

Hey Russell, congrats on the POR tattoo! In a spot like that, it'll take extra long to wear off.
I have a conspiracy theory on this cars rotting away thing. I believe it's certain folks in power (think Elon Musk), working with municipalities to promote the use of these ice treatments to quicken the demise of our vehicles. Sort of like when they did the Gov did the clunker buy back years ago and effectively got rid of lots of older and more polluting vehicles.
They put these chemicals down so hard, it's unreal, and the runoff really is bad for the environment.

Interesting to notice the industrial car production snow states are leading the way.. out west where there is considerable snow.. few States/areas use salt on the roads. Even in WA State, and funny story from a few years back.. no kidding, Seattle refused to use salt after an ice storm! Reason: Can't contaminate the Puget Sound (which is ocean/salt water!). Even for Seattle that was ridiculous, and now due to public outcry, in extreme cases they will use some salt.. though we do have it wash away pretty quick out here. We are also still allowed to use studded snow tires in the winter, they make a huge difference on icy roads. Many states banned them because they apparently wear out the roads.. but even where banned, emergency vehicles can still have them.. meaning: they work. Hard to believe the damage is really so bad compared to all the salting and rusting away vehicles..

 

[JR]

Logistics play a big part in what is used. The Great Lakes region is ground zero for salt mines but to use sand would require trucking in from long distance. Talk about big bucks.

Then you've got to look at temperature. Once it drops down to below 10 degrees they stop using salt around here as it's virtually useless. Magnesium chloride is effective down to around -25 IIRC. Pretty nasty stuff too.

 

[Wayne M.]

Salt is bad, but the trend has been towards wetting the salt with liquid calcium chloride. This stuff is so evil, it will imprint and stain wrenches in minutes and destroy your boots. NYC's salt trucks carry saddle tanks of over 100 gallons going down per truck per 12 hour shift.
There are safe alternatives like beet juice.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

jgillot, is the Ziebart only applicable to new vehicles?

I clearly need to fight back harder, i.e., Krown, etc. I'll be stepping it up. I can see that I have some POR work to do on my truck already.


I think the salt thing is so out of hand because people demand being able to drive at or in excess of the speed limit regardless of weather. In addition to destroying our vehicles the salt brine destroys all concrete and asphalt roadway surfaces and structures.

I have a concrete driveway, patio, and sidewalks. I shovel these and never put salt on them. I simply walk more slowly and carefully when icy. The most worn area is the apron on the driveway where the driveway meets the road. I note that the residential streets only receive a small proportion of the salt that the arterial streets receive! It really is ridiculous.

 

[jgillott]

Ziebart will treat a used vehicle. But, I don't think the warranty applies unless it is new.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I did some web-surfing at lunch. There does not seem to be a Ziebart close to me - closest is in Jamestown, NY (which is not all that far away, actually). There is a FluidFilm place and a Krown place right here in town.

I think I will get my truck, my wife's Kia, and my son's Lancer the Krown treatment now. We stored my wife's Kia last winter and so it has not been subjected to the brine, nor has my son's Lancer.
My homely little Patriot will get the Krown treatment when I get done with it.

I'll continue to study up on the Ziebart and maybe treat my truck next spring.

Economically, if I had done the Krown on my Patriot every year I think I would have saved money versus the parts I am replacing (9*130=1,170; the front and rear crossmembers alone are $600). Not to mention "one or two" hours of work.

 

[JR]

I can vouch for the shop on rt 20. Had Linex and many Krown treatments done there.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

I have not been able to do much on the Patriot lately due to work, family commitments, and the fall chores necessary to get ready for winter. I could have done some work during the week of Thanksgiving, but my older son was home from school and I decided it was better to do fun things with him for a couple of days instead.


I did make appointments at the Krown place for the vehicles we are using now. My homely little Patriot will go in when she is back together.


A question: there is an electrical connector mounted on the rear differential (I removed the differential and axles assembly in order to get the rear crossmember out). I could not then, and cannot now, figure out how the get the connector apart. I admit I am being timid with it s I do not want to damage it. I marked the wires and cut them in order to remove. I will splice and shrink-tube to install. I would like to clean the contacts and dielectric grease while I have it out. I assume there is a very simple approach to taking these connectors apart, I just have not found it. I do have the factory service manual, but it just says to separate the connector (I figured out that much all by myself! ) Can anyone tell me the secret? I'll post a picture if that helps.

Hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.

Thanks!!

 

[MichaelOverfield]

I've had more than a few connector fights over the years.... post a picture and I might be able to help. For the reconnect of the cut wires, I HIGHLY advise you use solder, tin both ends well and soak, then use liquid electrical tape, and go over that with shrink wrap, to ensure a completely sealed connection that won't be a future source of problems. My guess is that connector is for the speed sensor for the vehicle, and the computer will likely have all kinds of problems beyond the lack of speedometer if that signal path is not solid.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks, Michael. I got involved in getting the snowblower out and set to go this evening. I'll snap a pick tomorrow. The approach you mentioned on the wire splice is pretty much what I was planning. I am going to wrap the length of the wires with tape and then into the split loom.

I suppose I have one other update: my POR tattoo is gone now. Sure took a while. So, if anyone is going to use POR, make absolutely sure it never touches skin or be prepared for it to be there for weeks because it is not coming off until you shed the dead skin cells.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

This is the troublesome connector. It mounts to the rear differential. I'll look in the FSM to see what sensor it connects. The wires are a small gauge. It seems to me there is a tab that should release the connector, but I don't understand how to get it to let go. I am also somewhat worried about damaging the connector or ( worse) the sensor inside the differential.

 

[MichaelOverfield]

OK, It does look like that tab is to release it, did you try sliding it toward the wires, parallel to the axis of the connector, it does not appear to be a squeeze release like most connectors. Is there any other feature on the other side? You might be able to use needle nose pliers to grab the tab on both sides where it necks down, then push back toward the wire end, along the axis of the connector body to get it to release.. that would be the method I'd try..

 

[mwilson]

It's probably got crap built up inside it due to the location. Sometimes you can use WD-40 with the red tube to flush the grunge out.

I don't think you have to depress the tab very far as I recall. You might try a right angle pick and see if you can lift the tab here...then you have to rock the connector back and forth..

 

[TFucili]

We run into this all the time on ATVs and Side by Sides. Blow it out with compressed air, flush it with solvent or electronic cleaner, and blow it out again. It almost always works. Same issue with fuel injection connections, too.

 

[RUSSELL5000]

Thanks, guys. I was just looking at the drawing in the service manual. It appears from the drawing that the larger piece comes loose and the smaller piece inserts inside from the right side of my picture. So, yes, it would seem there is a tab where Mike Wilson drew the arrow.

Since every metal piece was seized together then I suppose it makes sense that the connector would be packed full of gunk. I'll get to cleaning, etc.

The service manual says that connector feeds: "SOLENOID - ELECTRONICALLY CONTROLLED CLUTCH". I believe this means when I push the 4WD button then current flows through this connector to a solenoid which activates a clutch so that the rear differential transfers power to the two axle shafts (vehicle is front wheel drive otherwise).