2010 Oil Analysis at 9600 miles

[Zak Smith]

I did the fourth oil change on my 2010 2500 Laramie CTD (purchased mid Jan 2010) and sent in a sample to Blackstone for analysis.

Here is some background information:

* oil changes done at 2370, 4339, 6218, and 9639 miles
* oil light came on at 4331 (first time - reset), 6867 (reset), and 9639
* the last "oil light interval" was 2772 miles
* this oil had 3419 miles on it and about 71. 4 hours
* filter changed at every oil change
* the dealer did one of the changes - I did the rest using Mobil Delvac 1300 Super CJ4, CI4+, etc ($9. 50/gal at Walmart)
* never gotten a "DPF is 80% FULL - REGEN NOW" message on the EVIC, and I've never really seen obvious evidence of a regen.
* The most I've hauled so far is a couple dirt bikes and enduro gear in the bed (easily less than 1000 lbs)
* [ ETA: ] The engine had about 199 hours on it when the oil sample was taken. The overall average speed (ie odometer / engine hours) is 47 mph

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What I don't fully understand is:

1. From articles here, I've read that the computer figures out when to indicate an oil change is due based on engine behavior, specifically number of active regeneration cycles that cause oil dilution by fuel, and that the goal is to prevent a fuel percentage in oil of somewhere around 4-5%.

If this is the case, why did the oil change light come on at "only" 2772 miles when the measured actual oil dilution per the report was less than 0. 5% ?


2. What is causing the oil to fall out of the target 15W40 viscosity range with only 3419 miles and virtually no oil dilution ? Surely the oil should last longer than 3400 miles? The analysis notes indicate it still has a lot of "TBN" lifetime left and the tech suggested running the same oil for up to 5500 miles.

 

[domehead]

Hi,

Thank you for sharing. I had two oil changes on my 3500 drw with 8800 miles on it. The first oil change was done at 4300 per the computer. The second was completed at 8800 miles even through it should have went to 9300. The reason why was the oil change message came on.



It appears to me there is a flaw in when the oil change message comes on, I ask the tech and he said he could not find any code in the system for duty cycle to oil change.

 

[JHumphries]

How important is having the oil analyzed?
Should I do it every change? once a year?
I don't tow that often, just move stuff in the bed.

 

[Zak Smith]

Next installment. The oil change indicator light came on at 12166 miles with 2522 miles 62:19 hours on the oil (overall average 40. 4 mph). Oil was changed at 12267, 2624 miles interval at 66 hours.

Note that in this analysis the dilution by fuel level was at 2. 0% and the viscosity was over a point under spec (cSt).

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[domehead]

Interesting. My truck has been setting for a month and when I got back there wsa still 1200 miles to go before the next oil change. Had some work and drove it about 60 miles after the first startup.



When I was leveling the job site the oil change message came on.



It appears to be a problem with this function in the trucks.

 

[Zak Smith]

With regard to the latest analysis, I can't criticize the oil-change-light algorithm this time. Two-percent oil dilution by fuel has been shown to put viscosity out of spec:

Oil Dilution Analysis - Powered by Google Docs

 

[PKellen]

I am in the same boat- only haul a race bike or two, no heavy towing. First oil change was at 2,200 mi, and yesterday while driving the engine did a MAJOR bog, then the change oil lite came on again, mileage is just shy of 5k.



I am bummed, but accept the fuel dilution-shortened oil change intervals due to light duty. But am a little concerned about the bog. I drove another 50+ miles afterwards, and haven't had the bog occur again.



I have just come to the conclusion that I am going to have to do my own oil changes at shorter intervals and keep all my reciepts for warranty validation.



(2009 2500 Mega cab 2WD)

 

[Gerpoli]

My 2010 has 18,000 miles and the oil change light has come on at 5k, 10k and 15k plus or minus 25 miles. I don't tow very often and have a decent amount of highway miles. During the first interval I had alot more idle time and during the third interval I had more highway miles than during the other intervals, yet the light has come on at the same interval each time. I haven't had analysis done, just thinking out loud and questioning the formula used by the computer.



edit: typo

 

[HBarlow]

The jury is still out. I could eventually be forced to come back to TDR and eat the words I'm about to write.

My '08 has just over 80,000 miles on the odometer now. I perform oil services at 10k mile intervals.

I did the same on my previous two Rams which were used for RV transporting running about 135,000 miles a year. As I have posted many times, I put 325k miles on the '01 and it is still in the family. I put 230k miles on the '06 in one year and nine months. I've never had any problems with the internals of a Cummins engine.

As long as I have been a TDR member I've been reading about members religiously performing oil samples and other members using exotic engine oils, additives, aftermarket filters, and witch oils. I've never paid any attention. I simply use quality engine oils, ordinary conventional oil not synthetics or synthethic blends, Fleetguard filters, and 10k mile service intervals.

 

[rscurtis]

Keep in mind Harvey that your '08 C&C does not have the NOX adsorber catalyst with its need for constant regeneration (every several minutes). This will result in less fuel dilution, enabling your longer oil change intervals. It is also possible your driving cycle helped to evaporate any fuel that may have been diluting the oil.

 

[Zak Smith]

Next. Oil change at 15278, 61:12 hours on oil, 3010 miles on oil. Here's the analysis
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At this time I replaced the air filter, oil filter, and fuel filter, and installed the H&S Mini Maxx, and switched to Amsoil 5W40 DEO.

Here is the results at 18414 miles, 74 hours on oil, 2685 on oil. I did not change the oil, just took enough of a sample to send in for analysis (thank you Fumoto drain valve!).

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Several things are notable:

1. this oil sample had a comparable number of miles/hours on it versus my prior samples

2. it was the first sample to have stayed in viscosity spec - all the rest were under based on SUS or cSt

3. this oil sample still has way more TBN left than any of the prior samples

 

[RMcKenna]

I have been a diesel / heavy equiment mechanic for twenty year's and any fuel dilution is not good whether it's 2% or 20% it's going to brake down the oil. This is a by product from the emission's dodge straped on the 6. 7. As far as the oil change lite it has no way of telling if you have fuel dilution in the oil. How dodge calculate's the timing of the light i don't no but i can tell you this buy cuting the oil change's in half thats dodge's way of dealing with the fuel dilution. Its alot cheeper for dodge to have the customer change there oil every 1600 miles then deal with the real problem the way they meet there emission's because thats were your fuel dilution is coming from.

 

[Zak Smith]

Follow-up:

* Same oil as the prior sample (ie didn't change it since 15278 mi - now at 20399)
* deletes, H&S MM since 15278 mi
* Amsoil DEO 5W40

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This oil is still better at 5121 miles than the Delvac in the truck stock was at 2600.

 

[AABEN]

I am a snow bird and put about 6. 000 miles on in the south and south west. I run Valvoline premiun Blue oil 15-40 with 10. 000 miles my TBN is running 10. 0 - 9. 3 And that is pulling a fifth wheel total weight of the truck and trailer is 23. 000+ My truck is stock except for a Volant air set up. I put 13. 879 miles on the last oil change that is when I got the 9. 3 Fuel in Eng has always been 0. 5 all samples was done at Blackstone .

 

[Zak Smith]

Maybe the older trucks - like your '03 - don't wear out the oil so fast as the new ones. This thread is about 4th Gen trucks, specifically the series of UOA's from mine.

 

[RonD]

I would like to know why your spending your money for oil analysis on a engine that has a 100,000 mile warrantee?, they cost about $25 each, by the time your out of coverage you will have spent $500, it sounds like a waist of money to me, sort of like a healthy person going to the Doctor every 30 days for a physical exam.

 

[Zak Smith]

they cost about $25 each, by the time your out of coverage you will have spent $500

For the first 15000 miles, my oil change interval per the EVIC, was about 2600-3000 miles.
The manual states (link to manual page) that the oil must be changed when the EVIC indicates an oil change is required, and that short oil change intervals are due to more frequent regeneration.

By your math, $500/25 is 20 oil changes, but if I'm following the manual, I'm going to be changing my oil more like 33 to 38 times at 2600-3000 miles per each. I drive quite a bit and changing the oil every month was just killing me, not even the cost, but the hassle. It's totally unreasonable to have to change the oil that often.

If I do it myself (which I do) and use $9. 50/gallon oil from Walmart, and a $13 filter from Genos, that's about $45 per change. $45 times 38 changes to get to 100k miles is $1700 in oil and filters. Have the shop do it and that number is going to be about 2x or over $3000.

Now if I spend $150 in the first 25,000 miles doing oil analysis to find out I can safely run my oil 10,000 miles between changes (having removed the primary mechanisms of wearing out oil in the 6. 7's: fuel dilution and EGR), then even if I use full synthetic oil at $27/gallon, the next 7 changes at 10k intervals to get to 100,000 miles will cost only $658.

 

[RonD]

OK, I understand, but why do you need to do this for 25000 miles?, is something going to change from 10000 miles and 25000 miles?, no, Blackstone will love you for the money your sending them. If the truck says change the oil at 3000 miles, just drain the oil and move on, forget the filter, there good for 6000-plus miles all day long, keep your money. Your making the effort to buy oil at Wally World at a good price, so why keep spending it at Blackstone?, if the engine craps out, and it won't , Dodge will fix it.

 

[Zak Smith]

is something going to change from 10000 miles and 25000 miles?

Something did change between 10,000 miles and 20,000 miles- I detailed that in posts #11 and #13. I removed the DPF and installed an H&S Mini-Maxx (which disables the EGR) at about 15k miles. Thus, the oil data prior to 15,000 miles is not really valid afterwards. If you notice, I have not changed the oil since then, but am monitoring its progress to see how long it can go.

Prior to the deletes, I was curious how the oil would stand up with the truck stock, and it turns out the oil used was out of spec even at the computer-prescribed interval.

change the oil at 3000 miles, just drain the oil

Like I said, I don't want to change the oil every month. That's unreasonable, and a pain in the butt.

 

[RVTRKN]

I am in the same boat- only haul a race bike or two, no heavy towing. First oil change was at 2,200 mi, and yesterday while driving the engine did a MAJOR bog, then the change oil lite came on again, mileage is just shy of 5k.



I am bummed, but accept the fuel dilution-shortened oil change intervals due to light duty. But am a little concerned about the bog. I drove another 50+ miles afterwards, and haven't had the bog occur again.



I have just come to the conclusion that I am going to have to do my own oil changes at shorter intervals and keep all my reciepts for warranty validation.



(2009 2500 Mega cab 2WD)

Do you have the G56 manual, and fill out your signature so all can see?