2013 3500 Driveline Vibration

[Wertles]

So its been quite a few years since I have posted but I have kept the truck completely stock and haven't really had any issue with it over 63,000 miles doing truck stuff...except one. Since new, I have had the dreaded driveline vibration. It feels like a very out of balance tire except that it will go away for a mile or two. It's bad at 70, really bad at 80. I don't notice it much while towing, probably because I'm going slower. It seems to go away while going around a corner. I took it back shortly after buying it new and the tires were rebalanced and I was told it was normal for these trucks. At 35,000 miles, wheels were inspected for out of round and a set of tires later and no difference. I just got back from a 1800 mile trip without a trailer and it was horrible. The truck shook the entire time. It is not in the steering wheel or brake pedal. I put the truck on the lift and I now see a leak on the input of the rear differential. Searching doesn't reveal many solutions so I don't know if this is a vent type of post or a desperate plea for advice. My only real idea is to replace the driveshaft with a one piece and see if I can make this tolerable to drive. I really don't want to invest in a new truck.

 

[EDankievitch]

I’ve been dealing with much the same vibration for years now. Even went as far as to pull the drive shaft an check the Ujoints. 3 sets of tires each balanced multiple times. New rotors . New wheels. Always the same. I even tried a set of those centramatic balances. Nothing has helped. Natural harmonics of the drivetrain?

 

[Jim W]

Is your drive shaft balanced or correctly balanced? I had a 1979 Cherokee Chief, Jeep 4X4 that had a vibration that could not be located. When I lost the u-joint on the driveline on the Jeep. I went to a driveline shop for a new u-joint but they insisted that I needed to purchase a rebuilt driveline from them. Will I did purchase the rebuilt driveline, with this new driveline the vibration was gone!

Not saying this could be it but I would spend the money to find out if the driveline is balance correctly!

 

[Randomrunner12]

I've got the same issue as you minus the leaking rear at the diff. I have done everything from having my driveshaft rebuilt, new joints, new rotors, pads, tires and wheels. Vibration is still there from 75-80 and then goes away.

have pretty much decided to drive under 75all the time lol.

 

[nukegm]

So its been quite a few years since I have posted but I have kept the truck completely stock and haven't really had any issue with it over 63,000 miles doing truck stuff...except one. Since new, I have had the dreaded driveline vibration. It feels like a very out of balance tire except that it will go away for a mile or two. It's bad at 70, really bad at 80. I don't notice it much while towing, probably because I'm going slower. It seems to go away while going around a corner. I took it back shortly after buying it new and the tires were rebalanced and I was told it was normal for these trucks. At 35,000 miles, wheels were inspected for out of round and a set of tires later and no difference. I just got back from a 1800 mile trip without a trailer and it was horrible. The truck shook the entire time. It is not in the steering wheel or brake pedal. I put the truck on the lift and I now see a leak on the input of the rear differential. Searching doesn't reveal many solutions so I don't know if this is a vent type of post or a desperate plea for advice. My only real idea is to replace the driveshaft with a one piece and see if I can make this tolerable to drive. I really don't want to invest in a new truck.

comrade - have you ever run the truck up on a lift or jackstands? anything obvious? you can see a lot when running in the air. runout, out of round etc. what about pulling the rear driveshaft and running with just the front? dunno if thats possible. i did that on a 70 bronco i have to isolate a vibration....just my .02 cents
cheers!

 

[sag2]

The newest issue of TDR should be out in a week or two. There will be a write up in The Rest of the Story about a vibration analyzer that you can purchase that works off your phone or tablet. The results were not quite as good as one of the professional tools, but it is several thousand dollars less expensive than one. It is reasonable enough that you can add it to your toolbox for properly identifying the source of a vibration.

 

[cerberusiam]

You need to give some more info on the truck, trans, suspension, etc., so we know what we are dealing with.

The standard build has terrible harmonics from the out of balance rotating assembly, hence they come with a fluid damper from the factory to try to negate it. Possible you got a bad one, a new one is much cheaper than a new truck.

However, if you have a leak on the rear pinion it is a better than even chance the problem is in the rear DL. If the ujoints are good and the hanger bearing not worn out you probably have a flange mating problem on the rear diff. Have you, or had done, flipping the the drive shaft 180 degrees on the flange to see if that changed anything with the vibe? If the vibe did not change or go away, all other drive train pieces and suspension are verified good, then it is time for a 1 piece DS and an open u-bolt type flange on the rear diff.

 

[sag2]

You need to give some more info on the truck, trans, suspension, etc., so we know what we are dealing with.

The standard build has terrible harmonics from the out of balance rotating assembly, hence they come with a fluid damper from the factory to try to negate it. Possible you got a bad one, a new one is much cheaper than a new truck.

However, if you have a leak on the rear pinion it is a better than even chance the problem is in the rear DL. If the ujoints are good and the hanger bearing not worn out you probably have a flange mating problem on the rear diff. Have you, or had done, flipping the the drive shaft 180 degrees on the flange to see if that changed anything with the vibe? If the vibe did not change or go away, all other drive train pieces and suspension are verified good, then it is time for a 1 piece DS and an open u-bolt type flange on the rear diff.

Until you figure out the source of the vibration (first order balance, or second order angle) you are just guessing as to what to repair or replace. That is where the tool comes into play.

 

[KATOOM]

First off you have to be able to determine the difference between a driveline related vibration and a tire related vibration. They are different...

So...if its a fast light weight harmonic vibration like a massage tool then its driveline related. Sometimes this vibration will also vary with on/off throttle variations while driving, and when towing because of the driveline angle changes during those key moments.

But...if the vibration is slower and more wobbly (heavier moving) then its tire/brake/wheel related.

If its driveline related then its very likely that you're experiencing what many feel with the front full time spinning driveshaft trucks. The front driveshaft is shorter and runs at a steeper angle therefore is more prone to u-joint wear, especially with a suspension lift. The double cardan joint has a centering ball which wears due to lack of maintenance constant turning and will allow the whole DC joint to move out of parameter resulting in a vibration. One easy way to isolate this is to remove the front driveshaft.

If the same drivetrain vibration remains after removing the front then you need to explore the rear u-joints and have the driveshaft put on a balancer to see if its out of spec. You'd be shocked how many factory driveshafts are curved/bent from the assembly line.

The other driveline vibration culprits are loose transmission yokes, loose differential yokes, sloppy differential pinion bearings, and driveshaft carrier bearings.

 

[GCroyle]

John Kelly at Weber State University has a series of vibration analyzer videos and a phone app. Take a look, not free or cheap but I'll leave the thumbs up/down you you guys.

He has an extensive series of powertrain videos. I've watched many, not all but lot's of skill and info.

 

[Wertles]

Thanks for all the responses. The truck is all stock, 3500 dialysis, aisin transmission and 4:10 gears. I know it is not tire/wheel vibration. I work at a wheel repair shop on the weekends and the wheels are true without bends or runout and the vibration hasn’t changed with different tires or balancing techniques (regular, road force, balancing beads etc). I think the next thing I will try is rotating the driveshaft 180 degrees and see if that produces any different result. Does anyone know if there is an OEM direct 1 piece replacement that fits? I have access to used parts across the country and I know that the new 2018+ units came with a 1 piece from the factory but don’t know if they bolt up without modification. For $200 or so, seems like a decent gamble. If they don’t, it just makes sense to get a custom one built if I go down that rabbit hole.

 

[JaredCM]

I purchased a 2018 3500 DRW new last year. It was the last 18' on the lot and I got a good deal. After driving it for a couple of days, I took it back to the dealer to have the tires rebalanced since, best I could tell, there was obviously one out and causing vibration. That did not have much effect on clearing up the vibration. Purchased a set of Centramatic wheel balancers around 5k miles, slight improvement, but not a fix. I have 31,000 on the truck now and have recently had to replace both front tires (at separate times but within a couple thousand miles of each) due to the tires separating badly, which I can only assume is caused by the vibration.

I am at a loss on what to do next. I have honestly contemplated selling the truck just to get away from the rough ride. I have tried to research and find fixes and solutions but it seems that everywhere I look I see people with the same problem, but no answer. The dealership only tells me that "a rough ride is common with a big truck like that", but I know better, this is not my first DRW truck.

Has anyone found a solution to this problem?

 

[cerberusiam]

Are you having a ride problem or a vibration problem? Not clear what you mean and trying to fix.

OE tires are usually garbage, as you can see. Need to replace the whole set and road force balance them. The next problem will be the low load rating of the stock 17" rims, that is what you have correct? Not going to buy tires at WalMart and expect good result, need a top flight tire with highest load rating possible.

 

[JaredCM]

Are you having a ride problem or a vibration problem? Not clear what you mean and trying to fix.

OE tires are usually garbage, as you can see. Need to replace the whole set and road force balance them. The next problem will be the low load rating of the stock 17" rims, that is what you have correct? Not going to buy tires at WalMart and expect good result, need a top flight tire with highest load rating possible.

I still have the OE tires on. My local tire shop (which I trust) tells me that they are decent tires, not the best, but not bad. Had the tires separated without me having this vibration, I would agree that they are cheap junk and that the reason for premature failure.

Not sure what the load rating of the rim would have to do with this. It is a Laramie so it has the stock aluminum wheels on it.

Unlike the OP, I do have vibration in my steering wheel. The vibration comes in around 65, is probably the worst at 75, and I've not ran it hard enough to know if it falls off past 85 or not. It seems that it has a slight come and go effect, like it gets worse for about 5 seconds, then better for 5, then worse, and so on. Set the cruise at 75 and look over at the empty passenger seat sitting there shaking with the vibration.

I have seen too many people who have the same issue talk about doing tire swaps, balancing, road force balancing, rotor swaps, all that good stuff and still not fixed the problem. I don't think its the tires. I don't think its the balancing of the tires. Some guys are talking about the rear drive shaft, but my vibration seems to be in the front end. I guess it could be the front drive shaft?!

 

[TFucili]

The shake doesn't cause the tires to separate, it's the other way around. The OEM Nexens have a pretty poor reputation.

 

[JaredCM]

The shake doesn't cause the tires to separate, it's the other way around. The OEM Nexens have a pretty poor reputation.

I've replaced both fronts and still have the same vibration. The same vibration it has had for 31k miles. Not sure a tire that's bad enough to cause the kind of vibration I'm getting would hold up for 31k, but I do know that a vibration elsewhere that is slightly transferring into the tires would cause them to go bad. Maybe I'm looking at this whole thing the wrong way, I don't know.

 

[AEdelheit]

First off you have to be able to determine the difference between a driveline related vibration and a tire related vibration. They are different...

So...if its a fast light weight harmonic vibration like a massage tool then its driveline related. Sometimes this vibration will also vary with on/off throttle variations while driving, and when towing because of the driveline angle changes during those key moments.

But...if the vibration is slower and more wobbly (heavier moving) then its tire/brake/wheel related.

If its driveline related then its very likely that you're experiencing what many feel with the front full time spinning driveshaft trucks. The front driveshaft is shorter and runs at a steeper angle therefore is more prone to u-joint wear, especially with a suspension lift. The double cardan joint has a centering ball which wears due to lack of maintenance constant turning and will allow the whole DC joint to move out of parameter resulting in a vibration. One easy way to isolate this is to remove the front driveshaft.

If the same drivetrain vibration remains after removing the front then you need to explore the rear u-joints and have the driveshaft put on a balancer to see if its out of spec. You'd be shocked how many factory driveshafts are curved/bent from the assembly line.

The other driveline vibration culprits are loose transmission yokes, loose differential yokes, sloppy differential pinion bearings, and driveshaft carrier bearings.

Front driveline does not spin in 2wd with the radius arm trucks as they went to a CAD front axle.

I know someone who had the same issues and put a dial indicator on the rear axle flange, tires and brake rotor off, and found the flange itself was bent just enough to cause his vibration issue.

 

[cerberusiam]

The vibration did not cause the tires to separate, the tires cause them to disintegrate because they are not up to the task of handling a heavy truck. Known issue with the OE tires. Most OE tires are not rated high enough for the beating they take. Typical rating on a stock 17" is 3195 lbs and that has proven to be inadequate on all but the smoothest roads. Where I live and drive if you don't get to at least 3600 per tire or more with a quality tire they do not last and cause nothing but issues. Somewhat depends on your road quality.

IIRC, your truck should have a front axle disconnect. You really are not spinning the DS and gears when in 2x4 unless there is an issue with the CAD. You could pull the DS to verify if the vibe changes, always possible something in the front diff or t-case is pooched from the factory. Does the vibe change with temp? Worse when the tires and drivetrain warms up, better cold? No difference?

A cyclic vibe is usually tires but it could be just the torsional harmonics on a heavy stiff truck. I have mostly removed it by just changing tires and wheels to adequately rated tires and heavier wheels. Have removed a lot of the problems by fixing the balance issue in the engine. Have also fixed it by tossing the DMF that was bad in the clutch, if you have a manual that is always a consideration.

As for the tire shop knowing what they are doing, unless the guy you are talking to is driving a truck like yours and has been thru the problems, they don't have a clue what is going on. They sell tires and guess at how they will work on your truck, that is about it.

 

[KATOOM]

Front driveline does not spin in 2wd with the radius arm trucks as they went to a CAD front axle.

I know someone who had the same issues and put a dial indicator on the rear axle flange, tires and brake rotor off, and found the flange itself was bent just enough to cause his vibration issue.

Correct...
Its important though to make the distinction so people understand what they're actually feeling when starting or engaging in these "vibration" threads. The number of people who mistake, or misdiagnose, what kind of vibration they're feeling only leads to wasted money and increased frustration as they cant find the solution. Especially for future readers who're looking for help only to be mislead by misinformation.

 

[Ozymandias]

The newest issue of TDR should be out in a week or two. There will be a write up in The Rest of the Story about a vibration analyzer that you can purchase that works off your phone or tablet. The results were not quite as good as one of the professional tools, but it is several thousand dollars less expensive than one. It is reasonable enough that you can add it to your toolbox for properly identifying the source of a vibration.

Does someone know the (exact) name of that app? I was searching around in the app store and found several.