2013 engine sputtering and cutting out at 6,000 - 12,000 ft (crossing Rockies)

[kleinbus]

So we do Kansas City - Salt Lake City haul on I70 several times a year. 1,200 miles one way straight haul with fuel and restroom stops, meaning it's 20-26 hours jaunt going 65-75 depending are we empty or towing.

Kansas City area elevation is somewhere 2,500 - 3,000 ft from sea level (or so)

Eisenhower tunnel is at 12,000 ft from sea level.

Signature truck (2013 with RFE68 auto) runs great at lower elevations but starts cutting out going up to Eisenhower tunnel. Sound is similar to 18-wheeler air-compressor governor releasing the pressure after reaching the system pressure.

The feeling is like waste gate would open and release the pressure for the split of second and then power comes back. These are supposed to be variable geometry turbo's so?

During the latest trip the temps at KC elevation was around 40F and at Eisenhower it was -5F. Towing light trailer (around 4k with atv's and other stuff).

First I thought I got crappy fuel and the frame mounted filter was gelling so at Utah the local dealer checked the frame mounted and it's heating was dead so they ordered new head and filter element, replaced and verified it warm's up.

At Utah I started using Power Service (white can) to try to reduce the possibility of gelling. Couldn't find Howe's so PS it was.

Got home and same thing going up the Rockies. Runs up the hills at lower elevation but once start climbing up the Rockies and go above 6,000 ft, it keeps the speed at 45-65 mph but if I try to accelerate or hit the steepest part, it starts cutting out and I have to ease and let the speed die 5-10 mph. Pass the Denver and symptoms fade away.

Boost while cutting out was anywhere from 16 to 22 psi.

Got home and changed the engine mounted fuel filter to make sure it's not clogged and it was as clean and shiny as the new I installed.

It didn't do this during our June trip and I have been driving 18-wheelers long enough to know how the engine should pull on those hills no matter the speed dies as steeper it gets.

So you diesel wizards, what do you say??

 

[sag2]

First of all it would be very unlikely the frame mounted filter was bad, and highly likely the rear heater needed to be turned on. There is a Star case and a TSB that instructs the dealer how to repair it. Next likely is a boost leak, but it would seem it should leak more at lower elevation with high load than at high elevation. I'm thinking your problem is still fuel gelling at low temps (not altitude) at altitude causing fuel starvation. The front filter would most likely look fine as that heater is working properly.

 

[kleinbus]

Trucker friend suggested same (gelling/starvation) as it still kept going.

While coming down from SLC (at highway 6) it did it on one hill and I happened to pull over right after, left at high idle for about 10 mins while checking trailer and straps and whatever I was doing inside the cab. Hit the road again and similar hill no sputter. Gelling doesn't make sense as I had full tank of fuel and the warm return shouldn't warm up the tank volume/mass that fast as ten mins doesn't seem long enough to allow such temperature change? Ambient temps at that area was around +15 to +30F.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Sitting still gives the exhaust system time to warm the fuel lines and frame mounted fuel filter; driving in cold weather chills those components and blows away most of the heat given off by the exhaust.

 

[EDankievitch]

The Fuel return dumps next to the Fuel pump So if you let it run like you said when you stopped the return fuel would have warmed the pick up and in turn the under bed filter. I agree with Kleinbus that you have a fuel gelling issue.

 

[LocoPilot750]

Probably no help, but the elevation around KC is about 1'000, I live near Lawrence, and it's about 950 over here. And, I gelled up here in a brand new '14 Laramie with 600 miles because the dealer didn't know the rear fuel filter heater was not turned on from the factory. Programming error that effected thousands of trucks. When it thawed out, I took it in for a re-flash. They are saying it effected most of the '13's and the '14's built before Dec 14th or so. Dealer never heard of it, figures.

 

[kleinbus]

No matter I have lived 7 years here in States and spent most of my years in Nordic Countries (Finland, Sweden) and then some years around the world. All this time I owned diesels, few American diesel pick-ups and mostly European TDI's and never had gelling issues as living above Anchorage, for the season we always had "normal" winter blend and when it got really cold, there was also "Artic" blend available.

Moved to States and bought my first gasoline car and now I'm back to diesels, 2012 it was VW Touareg TDI (3L V6 TDI) and no fuel gelling issues on that exact same route on I70.

Now with Ram I'm surprised to read all these gelling issues and getting feeling someone should go spank the chief engineer and the rest of the engineers who is behind this crap.

Now back to topic...

Locopilot, yes my Kansas elevation was probably off a bit and all I was trying to point out is that on lower elevations it seems to work fine and at 12,000 ft it doesn't....


So if the Power Service doesn't do the trick then I guess I need to find the Howe's....

I wonder should I fabricate some type foam insulation around the frame mounted filter to reduce the wind chill while hauling on the highway speeds?

What do you folks use and do the make sure you don't have fuel gelling issues?

 

[EDankievitch]

Only timer I ever had a gelling issue was back when I was running B100 BioDiesel and blending it for winter my self. I got the mix wrong and the world stopped. With the new under bed filter it's out there in the wind/ weather. It does not get the engine heat like the engine mounted filter does. So I can see it plugging up on a cold day if the heater is not working. Providing that your fuel is not blended for the temp your stuck in.

 

[kleinbus]

Yes I agree but this Christmas - New Year trip was good test environment as on our way to SLC the frame mounted filter heating was off (dead/malfunction) and it was replaced by dealer in SLC and on our return trip back to KC the frame mounted heating was supposed to be working and I still had the sputtering / cutting out issues on up-hills.

I couldn't find straight #1 down here "south" so I assume Kansas / Colorado / Utah is running with #2?

I fill up at the truck stops so the fuel quality and rotation should be better than at some backwoods gas station...

 

[sag2]

Yes I agree but this Christmas - New Year trip was good test environment as on our way to SLC the frame mounted filter heating was off (dead/malfunction) and it was replaced by dealer in SLC and on our return trip back to KC the frame mounted heating was supposed to be working and I still had the sputtering / cutting out issues on up-hills.

I couldn't find straight #1 down here "south" so I assume Kansas / Colorado / Utah is running with #2?

I fill up at the truck stops so the fuel quality and rotation should be better than at some backwoods gas station...

I still question if your rear filter heater is actually working. If the dealer just changed the unit and didn't reconfigure the BCM to turn it on it still isn't working. You need to check with a volt meter or test light to confirm it's working.

 

[Kirwin]

See the thread in this forum titled "Most 2013 and some 2014 NO fuel heater engaged". It has the explanation for why this is happening to your truck and it has the wiring diagram so you can understand why this is happening. This thread is all about the rear fuel filter heater. Ken Irwin

 

[kleinbus]

I did read the "no fuel heater engaged" and actually posted there too.

Repair order print on my hand shows "power on at the vehicle harness/connector" so either they made it up or really measured it. Resistance through the heater was out of the range so conclusion was it being dead and to be replaced with new filter element as well.

I guess I have to crawl under and do what Sag2 wrote and double check the dealers work.

 

[EDankievitch]

If there is Resistance on the through the heater it means it's good no resistance or open means it's bad. Need to check if you have 12 volts to the heating unit.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Did they check for codes? Could it be a map sensor acting up ( if the 2013 6.7's have them)?
Seems to me my mechanic told me had a map sensor on my 88 ford van (gas engine) and if started out a low elevation and climbed quickly to a very high elevation it would run like crud and I need to turn off engine and restart it. I'm sure now a days map sensors/computers are better.

 

[kleinbus]

Yes Utah and Kansas dealers have both checked the codes and there wasn't anything saved and without full gelling that had triggered engine light, the dealers scrathing their heads like I was just visiting them for fun...

If by some reason it would have been caused by any sensor and solved by shutting down and re-starting then it will be real PITA as on I70 at Eisenhower and around, there isn't much rest areas and its either wide shoulders for chain up/down or run-away ramps and all rest areas are before going up or after.

Also I wouldn't like the idea hauling butt up and getting everything hot and then pulling over to have cooldown to be able to shut it down to clear some darn sensors or computers.

Now down in flat Kansas I unable to replicate the issue and I don't have 10,000 lbs trailer to create loaded situation where engine would be loaded up like climbing the hill..

 

[Missouri Mule]

Don't think you would have to restart now a days. The map sensor could be giving false readings to ECM but the computers should catch the false reading and set a code on any sensor that was faulty .