After messing with the GP 370's for over 2 weeks, I gave up. At the suggestion of you all, I bled and rebled. I removed the injectors and cleaned them up with parts cleaner and a brush, re-installed, bled... bled and re-bled... but all for naught. This morning, I yanked the 370's and put my stock 215's back in, bled once and it fired over in 1/2rev!! Gonna send the 370's back... BTW, the last injector change took me about 1hr 15min (Im getting pretty good at this!) from popping the hood to re-fire.
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215's Back in....
- Thread starter BCFAST
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Forrest, the 370s seemed to run alright at boost, but during 'normal' around town driving, and even off-boost highway driving it would *drop* 1 or 2 cylinders and shake... sounds awful! I was a line-bleeding fool, thinking it was air. Never could make them work. Just got back from a cross-county drive... man it's tough to give away 60hp and 100lbs!! Even running poorly the truck was pretty strong... cant wait to get something in there working properly!
Well, ok, we don't have to throw in the towell on 60hp yet. 
http://www.dieselpage.com/tstpk.htm
In the auto pump, the difference between the #8 & the #5 is 50hp. In the manual pump, probably more as we're cramming more fuel down the lines.
Soooooo, #4 centered, here we come.
http://www.dieselpage.com/tstpk.htm
In the auto pump, the difference between the #8 & the #5 is 50hp. In the manual pump, probably more as we're cramming more fuel down the lines.
Soooooo, #4 centered, here we come.
BC:
I don't have exactly the same problem you have, but I'm not a
happy camper either. I cannot seem to get the truck to run smooth at a constant speed.
The truck wants to quiver and act like it's missing. I want to get the timing set at 16. 5, the spill port style, but have found nobody around the Atlanta area to do it. Cummins south says they have to stay in specs. Will not do it like I want. The customer is not right, here. If I can't get this worked out the 215's will go back in.
Piers is to far away for a run over to his shop.
. . Preston. .
I don't have exactly the same problem you have, but I'm not a
happy camper either. I cannot seem to get the truck to run smooth at a constant speed.
The truck wants to quiver and act like it's missing. I want to get the timing set at 16. 5, the spill port style, but have found nobody around the Atlanta area to do it. Cummins south says they have to stay in specs. Will not do it like I want. The customer is not right, here. If I can't get this worked out the 215's will go back in.
Piers is to far away for a run over to his shop.
. . Preston. .
370's
First off, I do know that delivery valves in the stock 215 pump are plenty big enough to support a set of 370's. Joe D and Piers will confirm this. Sickly has 181's and went over 6 hun.
I was running the dd3's before I installed the 370's in my truck about two weeks ago. I have not had too much wheel time with the 370's but I have to say I really liked the dd3's better.
The 370's run more rich at low speeds and you can see the extra fuel coming from the truck at idle. The fuel sac in the nozzle tip of the 370's make them richer at idle and mid range.
Until I get some heat built up in the truck mine will pop and blow some white smoke (unburned fuel). After she warms a bit the poping stops and the fun begins. I have noticed others trucks are poping the same way with 370's when not warm.
My thicker head gasket has effectively lowered my compression about 1 point and this will hurt low rpm fuel light off because the extra air and fuel is not there for the higher cylinder pressures.
Once the summer heat comes back Im pretty sure the 370's will settle down a bit and wont need the extra warming time.
I think the winter cold air temps coupled with fueling plates that give even more fuel seem to be the common factors we all have.
I do not know if the 215's or dd3's (extrude honed 215's) have a higher pop off pressure than the 370's. I will soon know. Im taking them both down to see whats going on inside these little boogers. I will report back.
BCfast, the air will be expelled in a matter of seconds or maybe 1 minute after you get it running again. I can tell you an intersting story about injectors, me, disassembly, etc. Its long one and kinda embarrasing as well. Ill save it for a PM or maybe tell it later.
Don~
First off, I do know that delivery valves in the stock 215 pump are plenty big enough to support a set of 370's. Joe D and Piers will confirm this. Sickly has 181's and went over 6 hun.
I was running the dd3's before I installed the 370's in my truck about two weeks ago. I have not had too much wheel time with the 370's but I have to say I really liked the dd3's better.
The 370's run more rich at low speeds and you can see the extra fuel coming from the truck at idle. The fuel sac in the nozzle tip of the 370's make them richer at idle and mid range.
Until I get some heat built up in the truck mine will pop and blow some white smoke (unburned fuel). After she warms a bit the poping stops and the fun begins. I have noticed others trucks are poping the same way with 370's when not warm.
My thicker head gasket has effectively lowered my compression about 1 point and this will hurt low rpm fuel light off because the extra air and fuel is not there for the higher cylinder pressures.
Once the summer heat comes back Im pretty sure the 370's will settle down a bit and wont need the extra warming time.
I think the winter cold air temps coupled with fueling plates that give even more fuel seem to be the common factors we all have.
I do not know if the 215's or dd3's (extrude honed 215's) have a higher pop off pressure than the 370's. I will soon know. Im taking them both down to see whats going on inside these little boogers. I will report back.
BCfast, the air will be expelled in a matter of seconds or maybe 1 minute after you get it running again. I can tell you an intersting story about injectors, me, disassembly, etc. Its long one and kinda embarrasing as well. Ill save it for a PM or maybe tell it later.
Don~
So don, have you installed your delivery valves yet? Just a question.
I suggested that because my truck was a perfect example of 370's not working worth a crap, even with 181 delivery valves. The ones on a stock 215 pump.
I currently have 191 DV's and 215 injectors in my 180 pump. The 191's did exactly what Piers said they would ( and told you ). I have read around here they are only good for high HP, or for making 370's work. And even someone so BOMBed that DV's didnt make a difference. Well I am not any of those and you cant get me to take them out.
I suggested that because my truck was a perfect example of 370's not working worth a crap, even with 181 delivery valves. The ones on a stock 215 pump.
I currently have 191 DV's and 215 injectors in my 180 pump. The 191's did exactly what Piers said they would ( and told you ). I have read around here they are only good for high HP, or for making 370's work. And even someone so BOMBed that DV's didnt make a difference. Well I am not any of those and you cant get me to take them out.
Slybones,
The small 131 delivery valves in the some auto trucks are a problem for the 370's. Yours may have had the 161's. I think.
Yes, the auto pumps and 370's will not work right without the larger delivery valves. BCFast has the 181's and they will deliver plenty of fuel for the 370's. 181's actually with larger injectors than 370's have been used for 600HP.
I have a set of 191's I got from Piers. I have not tried 'em out yet.
I know the 191's are good upgrade for the auto pumps or guys that want more power overall from the 215 pump. I have heard the spool-up and boost willl increase with the addition of the 191's on 215 pumps. I will pop them in if my timing kit gets here soon and report my findings.
Piers has the delivery valves we all need for the auto's and some 215 applications.
If you have a stock 215 pump you can run the 370's with no problems. Auto pumps need Piers upgrades. Some real high HP trucks could benefit from the 191's as well. So many variables when looking at the real high HP stuff to make a blanket statement that the 191's or 181's are the way to go with the 215 pump. Im still looking for more info. Cord says he had good luck with his 191's. I am gonna give 'em a try too.
Don~
The small 131 delivery valves in the some auto trucks are a problem for the 370's. Yours may have had the 161's. I think.
Yes, the auto pumps and 370's will not work right without the larger delivery valves. BCFast has the 181's and they will deliver plenty of fuel for the 370's. 181's actually with larger injectors than 370's have been used for 600HP.
I have a set of 191's I got from Piers. I have not tried 'em out yet.
I know the 191's are good upgrade for the auto pumps or guys that want more power overall from the 215 pump. I have heard the spool-up and boost willl increase with the addition of the 191's on 215 pumps. I will pop them in if my timing kit gets here soon and report my findings.
Piers has the delivery valves we all need for the auto's and some 215 applications.
If you have a stock 215 pump you can run the 370's with no problems. Auto pumps need Piers upgrades. Some real high HP trucks could benefit from the 191's as well. So many variables when looking at the real high HP stuff to make a blanket statement that the 191's or 181's are the way to go with the 215 pump. Im still looking for more info. Cord says he had good luck with his 191's. I am gonna give 'em a try too.
Don~
370's
I've had the 370's from J. Donnelley for about a year now, and I have no complaints
My idle is nice and smooth. Timing is set to 16* with stock delivery valves. As far as missing when cold, most any diesel will miss if you romp on it before the cyclinder temps are warm enough, just a matter of having enough heat to burn the extra fuel. I always let my truck idle for a couple of minutes after a cold start and have no problems with dropping cyclinders.
Sounds like BCFAST got some bad injectors or there is something wrong with his P7100. Maybe Timing?
I've had the 370's from J. Donnelley for about a year now, and I have no complaints
My idle is nice and smooth. Timing is set to 16* with stock delivery valves. As far as missing when cold, most any diesel will miss if you romp on it before the cyclinder temps are warm enough, just a matter of having enough heat to burn the extra fuel. I always let my truck idle for a couple of minutes after a cold start and have no problems with dropping cyclinders.
Sounds like BCFAST got some bad injectors or there is something wrong with his P7100. Maybe Timing?
when whomever sets your pump timing they should read the current lift setting when they do it. That will give ya what you have now and you can decide where you want to go. Most guys go about 15. 5.
Your mileage will pick up too.
Can you read me the part numbers off your injectors when you get time?
Try and get the numbers off the nozzle too. Use a brass brush to remove the carbon if ya need to. Im wondering if you have the correct numbers. Another thing that can happen is some small piece of dirt or grit can get into the injectors when you removed and re-installed the injection lines. A piece so small you would not be able to see it can mess up stuff.
Don~
Your mileage will pick up too.
Can you read me the part numbers off your injectors when you get time?
Try and get the numbers off the nozzle too. Use a brass brush to remove the carbon if ya need to. Im wondering if you have the correct numbers. Another thing that can happen is some small piece of dirt or grit can get into the injectors when you removed and re-installed the injection lines. A piece so small you would not be able to see it can mess up stuff.
Don~
Don,
From what I have read around here, I too thought it was the older autos with 131 DV's that have the problem with 370's. The newer autos I thought had 151's and the 215 pumps 181's. Neither were supposed to have a problem with 370's.
However when Piers installed 370's in my truck ( newer auto with 180 pump and should have had 151 DV's in it ), it did not like them and we took them back out. About 2 months ago we installed the 191 DV's. And to our surprise by truck alread had 181's in there.
In general I agree with had you said. But there are some oddball pumps out there like mine. Oh yeah, the turbo lag thing. 191's cut mine in 1/2. I love them and wouldnt give them up for nut'n.
From what I have read around here, I too thought it was the older autos with 131 DV's that have the problem with 370's. The newer autos I thought had 151's and the 215 pumps 181's. Neither were supposed to have a problem with 370's.
However when Piers installed 370's in my truck ( newer auto with 180 pump and should have had 151 DV's in it ), it did not like them and we took them back out. About 2 months ago we installed the 191 DV's. And to our surprise by truck alread had 181's in there.
In general I agree with had you said. But there are some oddball pumps out there like mine. Oh yeah, the turbo lag thing. 191's cut mine in 1/2. I love them and wouldnt give them up for nut'n.
SlyBones, did the delivery valves change your mileage any?
I will have to go and get my log book and check a few calculations. I dont think it helped hiway mileage at all. City mileage may have gone up a tiny bit. It definately has not hurt it. In general a tank seems to be going as far as it always has, maybe better. I really dont have numerical data without doing some checking.
I think that is long as you're not a vendor, you can talk prices. If not, this will probably go away. Piers sells delivery valves for 250 big ones.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
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Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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