24v in a 1st Gen

[benhall]

Will a 24v fit in a 1st gen truck? I have an 82 crew cab awaiting the coversion and I have thought about either a 12v with the P pump or a 24v with the P pump.



Ben

 

[1stgen4evr]

Physically the engines are blood brothers but you would be on your own as to the motor mounts and a few other things. The early mounts will work but probably won't hold the torque. There are post regarding beefing the early mounts to hold the bonbing that some are doing. In the long run, I think you would be better served doing the 12 valve and tweak it up to the point of the 24 valve. With the 24v you would have the later pump to deal with which isn't as simple as the VE on the first gen trucks.



On the other hand, I have just finished salvaging a burned 03 with a 24 valve engine. The pump is ruined on that engine and I am wondering if the VE will push the fuel. I have the parts to build it with the early pump. I have been told that the cracking pressure is too high and the VE would fail. But I may give it a whirl.



But for sure the engine will fit in the truck. There are all the factory parts to fit the 12 valve in the 82 which makes the job somewhat simpler.



James

 

[cerberusiam]

On the other hand, I have just finished salvaging a burned 03 with a 24 valve engine. The pump is ruined on that engine and I am wondering if the VE will push the fuel

I am still trying to figure out how your are gonna adapt that VE to the HPCR system. I am afraid asking the VE to provide fuel at 18-23k psi might be a little much for it. Also, I think the guys that are adapting the p-pump to the 3rd gens are customing building the pump mounts. I believe the blocks are significantly different.



The early HPCR engines are a favorite with the conversion guys. They claim all you need is 3 or 4 wires to the ECM and it will run on the floor. Everything else is basically the same.

 

[1stgen4evr]

"I have been told that the cracking pressure is too high and the VE would fail. But I may give it a whirl. "



geezzz, 18 to 23 thousand psi. You probably have answered that question completely. And I assure you I don't know much about the later systems. I have a million miles behind a 12v with a VE but no experience with the later systems.



Based on that info, I may not give it a whirl!!! Spec' I better be looking for the right pump.



One thing I did discover about the 03 setup. The crank has not been machined to accept the tone ring so is not subject to the crank failures of the first 24 valve engines. The tone ring is in the back of the cam gear and the pickup is under the injection pump.



And maybe I will just market the stuff since I bought the truck for the Disc setup on the rear axle.



James

 

[cerberusiam]

Most of the HPCR engines idle around 4-6k psi and the injectors are electronically fired. I was really wracking my brains how you were going to fit a jerk pump to that system. Do ya suppose the VE could generate an idle?



Are you going to drop that AAM rear end into your gen1 or do you have another project under way? How do the measurements on housing width, spring pads, and such match up? Is it possible to transplant the rear end assembly with springs into a gen1? The gen3's have a different spring setup on them that is supposed to handle weight and ride better. I am going to need something a bit beefier for my 92 so was speculating on what was available.

 

[1stgen4evr]

Based on my lack of info on the 03 injection system, I had the bright idea that I could just hook the lines to the system using a VE. At least the lines are similarly situated. Actually my nephew has the remains of a 98 24v that broke the crank (not his truck just some trading he did) so there is a later model pump I can use, or he can use if I swap some stuff with him.



As to using the axle, I have not measured anything but generally speaking, I could do it as we have a complete fab and machine shop capacity that supports the product we sell. The frame is of course different on the two trucks and the hangers are different as well. My first thought was to adapt the discs to a Dana. In fact, since I bought the salvage truck, I am driving a 97 which has reallly good brakes and a lot of other nice features. At the moment the old faithfull 93 is in sick bay wating for a complete axle transplant. I have several trucks that I rob parts from to make the first gens run and I will use one of those axles. Most likely the salvage axle will wind up on the crew project.



As to something beefier for your 92, is your truck a dually? There was an axle (Dana) used by Chevy called a camper special (18 or so years ago) which was designated a 70HD. It is a beefier axle. It has tubes the size of the Dana 80 and the Chevy setup has bigger brakes and larger bearings so is in fact a stronger axle than what ours are. It has been a long time since I had the cover off one but I think the carrier bearings as well as the pinion bearings are bigger.



I am not positive but I think the main difference in the ride is the result of longer springs.



My apologies for hijacking this thread.



James

 

[cerberusiam]

Thanks for the info James. If you get a chance to do some measurements shoot me a PM. The rear thats in the 92 now is the heavier one. The books list it as a Dana 71 with the bigger bearings. It has the same drums and bearings as the 1-ton version but is only a single wheel. The next round of upgrades will probably push the engine to 400hp/1000+ tq. Add to that a custom transmission to get the power down and we are probably pushing the limits of the 70. Either the D80 or the AAM looks to be a beefier unit so am kicking around the idea of just swapping instead of rebuilding. If we could swap the springs and rear it would help with the ride and handling.



Yep, I think we hi-jacked the thread enough for now. :-laf



To the original question, all the 12/24V's will work for a conversion. Depends on whether you want the mechanical version or more electronics to play with.



Good luck with your project.

 

[RonA]

I didn't swap the springs, but the Dana 80 swap was pretty easy.