Competition 24v Mechanical Timing

[DavidTD]

Something Jeff Garmon has been thinking about so he made one.



#ad




No testing yet.

 

[Jetpilot]

Very cool... . Lets us know how it works out.



Doug

 

[BillGotthelf]

Dave with your dyno you guys should be able to see what effect advancing or retarding will have. I bet you will have different results from different years. I believe you are going to see some of the ecm's compensate for the manual advanced timing by retarding timing electronically.

 

[Hohn]

Dave with your dyno you guys should be able to see what effect advancing or retarding will have. I bet you will have different results from different years. I believe you are going to see some of the ecm's compensate for the manual advanced timing by retarding timing electronically.

Bill, on what basis to do you say this? How exactly would the ECM "see" the mechanically advanced timing?



If the main input to the ECM (with respect to #1 TDC location, etc) is the Cam sensor, then this gear should be able to do the trick, shouldn't it?



Does the ECM have any "cross-checks" for timing reference (#1 TDC)?



What about the VP44 keyway? Can the ECM figure out timing deviations from stock?



Does this adjust CAM timing, or INJECTION timing? It would seem that it's BOTH-- since the engine gets timing data from the cam (at least in later years), that advancing the cam timing would cause a retardation of injection timing, and retarding the cam would advance injection timing. True?



On the earlier 24Vs with the crank sensor, this should be a non-issue. But on the later engines, maybe it's a problem?



Do I have the crank and cam sensors confused? I thought the early engines had crank sensors, then they switched to Cam sensors. True?



Justin

 

[justinp20012500]

Something Jeff Garmon has been thinking about so he made one.



#ad




No testing yet.

Is it going to come with a "bigger opening" in the time cover?



It would be a pain to have to pull the cover everythime you want to bump the timing.





Justin

 

[DavidTD]

Yes the cover would have to be removed. The idea is that you would not be changing it every week. Without testing, knowing if the lack of crank sensor will matter in later years is undetermined. But as Hohn said, it will work. Jeff has used other methods similar to change timing and the results have been awesome. He had one that did a cool imitation of a 12v.



Needs to be tested. Any takers? With the workload Jeff currently has it may be awhile before he does it.

 

[justinp20012500]

David you have a PM.



How much timing adjustment will that gear privide?



The age old question...



How much timing does a stock 24v run stock?

With an EZ?



With a comp?



With a comp stacked with a superchips tuner?



Edit: I have an extra vp gear that I can send you.

 

[COMP461]

The timing of the cam and injection pump are easily played with , first grind all the dots off

 

[TractorNut]

We have been talking about this too... The VP does have a speed sensor inside the pump. . a gear with a notch for each cylinder... (also called the angle of rotation sensor. ) What I could never figure out is how the ECM can know where the cam ring is. . I know it can change the timing by moving the cam ring. . and by delaying the closing of the soleniod (delaying the start of injection. ) . . You might be able to move the location of this sensor also. . but it would be a little tricky... It mounts on the two screws sticking up in the pic. . If you pull the top off the pump you will see the sensor. .

Edit: Other thing. . it seems that some of the guys running the MAD ECM (early version) and a timing box where having some problems. . I was just guessing that it was too much timing... or maybe just too much at the wrong time??

Bryan

#ad

 

[MPalachuk]

Doesnt the computer make timing adjustments assuming the static timing is at a specific setting? Static timing of 10 degrees just for example, then the computer adds another 10 degrees, so the engine sees 20 degrees of advance and the computrer assumes its 20 degrees. Now if you set the static at 20 degrees and the the computer adds its 10 degrees the engine is running at 30 degrees but the computer thinks it is at 20. This is how some big trucks work isnt it about the same? All numbers are for example only. Did this make any cence at all?

 

[Turbo Thom]

I won't call any names, but there is a diesel company that did this very thing to "change" the timing, but instead of doing what Jeff did they just had the ring "welded" to the spots where the bolts were. Results? The ring broke. the results of that, the truck quit runnin, the customer is angry, and Jeff waste 3, 10 hour days looking for the problem. He found it just by luck. Pulled the cam and came up with this idea. The difference is this one is adjustable and the other wasn't.



Now, will the VP 44 keep up? David. Is Penny's truck the test mule?



Time will tell.



. . Preston. .

 

[shawn huizenga]

Hey guys, this is EXACTLY what I need for my pickup. I had the exact thing happen to my cam gear which had the welded-offset tone ring. I am definitely looking for a more permanent solution, and thats it. I don't think I want to be replacing this every 4,000 miles, because thats how long the first one lasted! It's not that the parts are very expensive, but its the fact that you have to tear apart the whole front end of the pickup to get the cam out! Anyway, sorry about that, just had to vent a little.



Shawn

 

[HOSS]

Needs to be tested. Any takers?

I'll be your Huckleberry

 

[Turbo Thom]

Hoss aka: Mark... ... ... ... ..... SOLD... ... ... ... ... ..... sorry.



. . PT. .

 

[DavidTD]

Hoss aka: Mark... ... ... ... ..... SOLD... ... ... ... ... ..... sorry.



. . PT. .

Not so fast Preston. I have talked with someone but they have not talked with Jeff to see if they want it.

 

[Turbo Thom]

Well then, I just may buy it. Then have an auction on ebay. How bout that?



Really, I was going on what Jeff said. Anyway, it's laying on the table over there.



. . Preston. .

 

[Todd T]

I won't call any names, but there is a diesel company that did this very thing to "change" the timing, but instead of doing what Jeff did they just had the ring "welded" to the spots where the bolts were. Results? The ring broke. the results of that, the truck quit runnin, the customer is angry, and Jeff waste 3, 10 hour days looking for the problem. He found it just by luck. Pulled the cam and came up with this idea. The difference is this one is adjustable and the other wasn't.



Now, will the VP 44 keep up? David. Is Penny's truck the test mule?



Time will tell.



. . Preston. .

Piers comes to mind... when reading this... :-laf