2nd gen block for 3rd gen?

[HHhuntitall]

Ok, so I'm on the hunt for an engine. Long story short, the block cracked in my '03 when we started cutting #6 for the sleeve, so I need a block or engine, one or the other. Seeing as I have the . 020 pistons and all the bearings, will a 2nd gen 24v engine block work in the '03 HPCR? I have several of these engines sitting around from parted trucks, so if I could make one work, I'd love to. I know the pistons are different, what about connecting rods? Anything else? Naturally, I have all the parts laying in neat little piles in my shop, so I have everything to build it with, I think..... I just need a block..... unless I find a 6. 7 short block or engine somewhere for cheap!

 

[Shadrach]

NO The blocks are TOTALLY different for 03 and newer. Lots of differences. The bolt pattern on the back of the block is different, the oil pan is a different pattern, the front cover is different just for starters. Then there are the internals. 03's have a block stiffner plate, different style piston cooling nozzles, different head gasket. You will need to find a block from an 03-07 Dodge. The Cummins p/n for a new one is 4089503. Shadrach

 

[HHhuntitall]

Ayight, but just a few questions..... the block stiffener bolts in, as I took it off, the aftercooler, or piston lube nozzles bolt in, too. The bolt pattern is the killer, though. I'm gonna line 'em up side by side in the morn. What's the difference, if you don't mind my asking? Is it in the auto block, standard? And I know Cummins doesn't stock the block at Ft. Worth, as they were going to have to send out a request just to get a price on one... . and i know the head gaskets and heads are different... . and the part # you have, is that for all of the 03-07s? I'm not trying to pick you apart, just pick your brain for answers... . this is the first HPCR engine I've gotten into this far.....



Thanks,

God bless you and yours,

Casey

 

[Shadrach]

There is no place to bolt the stiffner plate to on an 02. There are no holes for the bolt on pc nozzles. Could an 02 block be used? In back yard mechanic I suppose it's possible, apart from the fact it would be an abortion and a partsmans nightmare. You would have to loose the stiffner plate, use the stick nozzles, the crank position sensor is in a different place, the trans adapter won't bolt up so you would have to use an 02 one. Now will the ECM plug fit? TDR member DPashko put a 98 12v in his 03 and had some electrical issues so things can be done. The question is are you prepared for all the hassles that you WILL run into now and down the road? Hot rodders have been doing modifications for years. Do as much research as possible. Is your truck an auto or stick? Even an 05 engine will cause you grief being installed in an 03, because of minor differences. Shadrach

 

[HHhuntitall]

Well, that tells me what I need to know. Thanks for the time. While I don't mind some of the differences, if I'm going to go down the road of headaches, late nights, and cases of beer, I'll spend the money on a 6. 7 and get bore AND stroke. :-laf I've got one located for $6500, w/ 15k miles, but that's still about 3rd on the list of options at the moment..... I'd still rather find a block so I use the $1500 in parts I've already got, such as the . 020 pistons, for example..... I had just hoped to use what I already had to defer any costs, 'cause I'm a cheap a*s sometimes... .





God bless,



Casey

 

[Shadrach]

You got me curious now. Head gaskets are different material but might fit. Coolant passages are different shapes, might causes cooling issues down the road? Frt gear housing gasket is TOTALLY different. 03 hsg will NOT fit on an 02 block. If you use an 02hsg and cover you won't have any way of mounting your belt driven power steering pump, or you crank position sensor. The 02 crank sensor is on the crank INSIDE the pan about # 4/5 cyl area. That would mean changing the crank and modifing your wiring harness. Are these obstacles or oppertunities?

BTW there are 3 new blocks at the Cummins warehouse in Memphis. How much are they in Texas? They are about $3k up here. Be patient & you will find what you want.

Shadrach

 

[HHhuntitall]

There are none available at the moment. The parts guy at Cummins said he'd have to call and see about availability before he could get a price..... yeah, I know what that means. He said upwards from $2500, so yeah, $3k would be close.



I want to compare the blocks to see just HOW different they are, but I didn't get time today. Daylight is longer, but still not long enough this time of year. My shop is full of '03 and '85 at the moment, so no room there. My block got set up on a bent frame off the hill. I guess that'll go to scrap iron in the next few months.....



The wiring is a pain, I'm sure. I'm fairly certain the heads would fit, looking and measuring the decks, but I'm not sure about the valve clearance, as I don't have a swinging assembly to measure for the '03. As they are very similar cranks, I don't think that'd be an issure. The crank sensor on the '03 is on the dampener, so I don't see a need to change the crank. The pistons are the primary difference that I've seen. I wonder what it would change the compression ratio to if you used the 2nd gen pistons? The housing bolt up is not easily overcome, I don't think. The whole shebang still needs another look, maybe. I'm curious, too, as to just what the main differences are. I'm pretty sure the '03 block has a heck of a lot more freeze plugs than the 2nd gen. for both water and oil.....



And at the moment, these are obstacles, as I need the truck up and running by the end of the month, before we start working cattle again. I'm blessed to have another one to drive, a '97 3500 4x4, but the fuel mileage sucks on it. The cam is seriously retarded, as the engine came out of an F-650 with an Allison behind it. But I'm not touching it until I have this one fixed!! Or else I'll be driving my '01 gasser to beat on!!



God bless,



Casey

 

[Shadrach]

quote... The crank sensor on the '03 is on the damper, so I don't see a need to change the crank... .
If you use an 02 block you would have to use an 02 frt gear hsg and cover which has no provision for the pick up sensor at the damper. That's what I meant by " The 02 crank sensor is on the crank INSIDE the pan about # 4/5 cyl area. That would mean changing the crank and modifing your wiring harness ". Hope you get it up and running soon since it's a work truck. Shadrach