2nd Gen compatibility in 1st Gen trucks

[dpuckett]

This idea was given to me by another member here, who exactly it was escapes my feeble mind at the moment. Anyway, there were quite a few changes to the engines and trucks from their introduction in 1989 till the end of the 2nd Gen run in 2002. A lot of things were upgraded, some are a direct fit into our older trucks, some require mild to extensive modification to make it fit. Seeing as we, as a group, are fairly fearless and adventuresome in our quest to make this or that better for our old rigs, or due to the scarcisty of aftermarket stuff for our trucks, I thought I'd start a list of stuff that will fit, based on my own experience and readings here.



Turbo- direct bolt on to the engine. If the exhaust housing of the "new" turbo is wastegated, the downpipe will have to be either shortened or moved back about an inch and a hair. If you lack the heatshield of the intercooled trucks, I would highly suggest cutting the DP after the turbo clamp flange and again right where it fares to 3", and reweld the flange to the DP,taking a total of an inch and a half or so off. ALso, if you are putting a HX35 or HY35 turbo on a nonIC truck, you will need to get or make a bigger intake hose from the filter, and rig up a way to plumb it into the intake. Take a look in my reader's rigs for pics of the HX35 install.



Head- from my reading, direct bolt on. Some have said flow is improved slightly over the older stock heads. I have no hard evidence (from a flow meter) to refute or back this claim. Some accessories (t-stat housing, intake, heater hose routing) require some creative thinking.



Exhaust manifold- direct bolt on from 12v; 24v manifold will not work. The ports are different.



Clutch- The stock clutch and flywheel from your Getrag will work with a NV4500, provided the NV4500 has the stock 1-1/4" input shaft. You should research into whether you can use the flywheel adaptor and starter. Bellhousing is different I know.



Intercooler- Will fit with some modifications to the radiator core support, and new piping/ boots, as the 2nd Gen cooler is a bit wider than the stock 91-93 IC, it can work. Some have put the newer style ones in upside down and had a good fit.



Front 40-20-40 split bench seats- requires an adaptor to be made to bolt it to the floor. I'll look up the thread and post a link here for specifics.



Radio- For AM/FM CD or CD/ cassette, I have been told it is a direct bolt in, plug and go fit. Dont know for sure; will find out as soon as I get the cash. I miss being able to play Chris LeDoux and Toby Keith when I want to.



Someone else chime in here with what is required for axle (D80), auto transmission, and any other swaps you can think of.



Daniel



edit: in addition to the above I'd like to add the following...



Injector lines, along with injector bodies- and possibly tips- along with pop off readjustments for the higher pressures the P7100 runs. Timing gear housing needs changing, which involves removing the cam (which, in turn, basically means take off the grille and everything behind it to get to the cam), and the rest of the gears in the case. The P7100 takes a different pump gear than the VE, as well. I've read that you can run into interference with the brake master cylinder from the AFC housing on the P7100. It looks like you might also have to change the intake horn and related plumbing. It might be doable IF you do your own work, and can get a great deal on parts. Otherwise, get a 2nd Gen engine, drop it in there, and sell the VE pumped engine as a used take out to help offset the cost.



Daniel

 

[R C Cola]

Rearend Swap

:-{} Just did this to my truck here goes. 95 1 ton dually Dana 80 LS into my 91 SRW Dana 70 LS. I did a lot of unnecessary worrying on this one, here is how it went. The shock mounts on the 95 are welded on in the wrong place for the 91 but, by using the existing shock mount bracket already on the truck it all worked fine. The shock mount welded to the axle housing on the 95 drivers side was in the way of the shock and we had to cut it off with a torch.

The rear lugs are now 9/16th's instead of 1/2 " and the holes on the rear wheels were too tight so we drilled them out 1/32" oversize and the fit is now perfect. I was concerned about the spare and front interchangability so pulled all wheels anticipating drilling them all out to match the rears. Tried the fit first just to see and all other 3 wheels fit the 9/16 lugs with no changes needed! The center hole on the rear wheels is now a very tight fit, shove kick, and cuss, then suck it up with the lug wrench for the last 1/8th inch. If I can figure a way to do it evenly I will take off about 1/64th all around for a better fit. For now a minor problem.

E-Brake cables did not match so had to shorten the front half of the stock cable to make it work. Yoke, U=Joints, and driveshaft length all worked fine no changes. I did have to buy 2 lug nuts since the axle I got was short 2.

This was a dually axle thought I would have to convert immediately due to differance in axle width (new wheels, tires, fender flares, etc. ). Wrong!!

Stuck my existing singles on and the fit was perfect. track width, alignment with front, and inside wheel wells. Handles perfectly and much heavier duty.

I was afraid that it would adversly affect my fuel miliage, so far it seems to be exactly the same. :--) Plus I can convert to dually anytime I feel the need to by buying, wheels, tires, and flares. R C

 

[R C Cola]

Dana 70 to Dana 80 swap - update !!

Yes it did fit. But the 80 nose extends farther forward than the 70 nose did. Upon installation everything looked fine, yoke, fit, etc. Later when the weight of the gooseneck trailer (loaded) was on the hitch ball and the bed lowered truck then settled down. then going down the road there was insufficient play to compensate for bumps on the road. Noticed a new noise!

Inspection revealed yoke slider was bottoming out. Shortened driveshaft and balanced, installed 2 new u-joints. Hope that in 10 days no serious damage done to bearings. R C

 

[dpuckett]

I had the same issue in mine. I got the shaft shortened 1. 5" and rebalanced and so far so good up to about 100mph.



For the D80, one will need to either bore out the stock D70 spring mounts (that go under the axle) or get the ones from the D80 and use 5/8" u-bolts. Guess you could use the OEM 9/16" u-bolts and use a washer or bushings to take up the slack.



For the shocks, you need to either use the stock mounts (if you kept them), weld a bracket to the D80 mount, or use the D80 2ndGen mounts.



DP

 

[PaulRobinson]

Most interesting . . . I've also been interested in swapping a 97 engine into my 92 - the 97 engine is being o'hauled - the 92 has a bad wrist pin (?) - and I figure its not a lot harder to swap engines than just repair the 92, and the 97 engine is on the bench anyway.



Any other thoughts about this swap? I hear the shutoff valve needs a ballast-type resistor ie needs 12V for start and 6V to run. So that's different. I'd be interested in following up on the Brake booster/injector pump mentioned above. Doesn't sound liike the exhaust is a problem. Trans adapter bolts to the block OK, stock flywheel, etc.



I'd wonder if someone has tried to drill the Gen2 bellhousing for the Getrag trans - that would allow a larger fwhl and clutch if used with the gen 2 trans adapter. The throwout fork/slave cylinder is different in a pix I saw - not sure just what would be involved there. I may answer my own question soon - but there's no point trying to make all the mistakes yourself - you'll never live long enough . . .

 

[RSchwarzli]

Lets see what I can add here:



2nd gen shift knob works



NP205 bolts right to the NV5600



NV5600 bolted to the 97 12v adapter plate so the 97 plate would work on a 1st gen. Not sure if the 1st gen plate would work. This will requie relocation the trans crossmember back a few inches.



Will keep thinking... . I know I have alot of 2nd gen parts on my truck. Just have to remeber what parts!

 

[RSchwarzli]

Steve - Please add this to my last post under the 5600 swap... remembered more details! I am sure more will come to!





Also reguired for he NV 5600 is cutting a new shifter hole in the trans tunnel about 6" back from the existing getrag hole. Will also need to lengthen the t case shifter rods and will alo need to fabricate a mount for the T case shift bracket at the mounting points for the 2nd gen bracket will not work.



The getrag reverse light switch can be interchanged so that the wiring harness will still work. In the even you want to use the harness off of the 2nd gen donor, that is fine too as the original 1st gen harness does need to be lengthened due to the longer 5600. Just chop the 1st gen end off, then use a longer section from the 2ng gen to solder it on. Be sure to soder it well to aviod intermitent reverse light! Also be sure to use shrink tubing to seal out any water!



Also there will need to be some fabrication of a rear trans motor mount. The 1st gen support can work, but it will need new bushings as the 5600 weight close to double of the Getrag. As I was making my own plate, I used a spacer plate (1/4 steel I believe) and then bolted a factory 04 rubber mount to the spacer. Do note, if the spacer plate is too tall, the trans tunnel lip (right behind the motor) will impact the bell housing!

 

[KOG]

47RH will swap. Have to have adapter plate for engine and starter. Move rear transmission mount to the rear and shorten driveshaft. Lockup by grounding pin from transmission, I use an old dimmer switch mounted on floor and a green LED on the dash to indicate unlock. Bellhousing to cab clearance gets tight, I had to replace and shim cab mounts back to stock height from sagged to get clearance. Lockup converter is very useful when towing heavy.