3406E 350hp Need More Power

[NWhitney]

We have a '95 Freightliner with a 3406E that is rated at 350hp. We just bought a '98 3406E with 450hp. Now I realy want the 350 to make at least 450. Other than added injectors, and turbo upgrade, or the Pittsburgh Power box what are my other options?

 

[coolky]

Take it to the nearest Caterpillar dealer and spend thousands of dollars to get it rerated for 450 hp.

 

[mhuggler]

We have a '95 Freightliner with a 3406E that is rated at 350hp. We just bought a '98 3406E with 450hp. Now I realy want the 350 to make at least 450. Other than added injectors, and turbo upgrade, or the Pittsburgh Power box what are my other options?

Without any "iron changes"(injectors, turbo, etc. ) your stuck @ 410HP. Also, a Cat dealer, such as the one I work at , won't rerate you if the transmission won't handle the torque rating of the 410 which is available in 1450 or 1550 ft. lbs. The 350 is either 1350 or 1450. Anything over the 410 calls for different injectors, turbo, camshaft, and piston crowns. If you do get the Pittsburg box be VERY carefull with the exhaust temps as the pistons you have won't take much heat or abuse. At the very least, get the high horsepower turbo(reman part no. 0r7205). Crank it up and have fun!

 

[NWhitney]

I talked to a local cat shop (non-dealer) and he sugested that I have the RPM increased from 1800 to 2100. Is this a good idea? Is this how their is two TQ ratings? Can this guy with his cat computer do the 410 flash? This is a farm truck that does not need more than 100 extra hp... I guess anything would help it get out of it's own way!

 

[mhuggler]

I talked to a local cat shop (non-dealer) and he sugested that I have the RPM increased from 1800 to 2100. Is this a good idea? Is this how their is two TQ ratings? Can this guy with his cat computer do the 410 flash? This is a farm truck that does not need more than 100 extra hp... I guess anything would help it get out of it's own way!

Increasing the governed rpm won't get you any more power on these engines. They pretty much run out of steam not far past 1700 anyway. It gives you a little more liberty as far as shifting goes but that's about it. Only licensed Cat dealers can get the proper passwords and fuel settings for doing a rerate.

 

[CPjMech]

I just got back from Peoria, was at the '07 RRT conference among other topics was future rerate and fls/fts adjustments. If you're planning on a rerate do it before the mid of Jan. This goes for all electronic engines, not just the '07 stuff

 

[cojhl2]

I drive a 359 with a 3406B which the guy who works on it says it puts out 525.



I believe it too cause with 105. 5 it has plenty of snort for sure.



So,, I don't know how to do it but apparently the iron will stand it!!!

 

[JFaulkner]

..... If you're planning on a rerate do it before the mid of Jan. This goes for all electronic engines, not just the '07 stuff

If you can say, what's going to change in jan that would effect older models?

 

[CPjMech]

If you can say, what's going to change in jan that would effect older models?

In a nut shell, the factory password system is changing again. Much like the PAR calculator if you want to adjust fls/fts you will have to enter the current fls/fts in the ecm. The fps will only let you enter the original factory fls/fts or settings that are in TMI for your serial number, or from the PAR calc. Throw away your little black book of numbers as the passwords are generated by the new numbers you want to put into the ecm, so you won't be able to just put any numbers in :{

 

[CPjMech]

I drive a 359 with a 3406B which the guy who works on it says it puts out 525.



I believe it too cause with 105. 5 it has plenty of snort for sure.



So,, I don't know how to do it but apparently the iron will stand it!!!

Trust me the iron in a B model is much better and able to take abuse than the crap in the 355/410 E's. An extra 100 hp is nothing really from a B or C, but w/o a dyno run you just really never know

 

[JFaulkner]

In a nut shell, the factory password system is changing again. Much like the PAR calculator if you want to adjust fls/fts you will have to enter the current fls/fts in the ecm. The fps will only let you enter the original factory fls/fts or settings that are in TMI for your serial number, or from the PAR calc. Throw away your little black book of numbers as the passwords are generated by the new numbers you want to put into the ecm, so you won't be able to just put any numbers in :{

I just wish I could get someone to turn mine up, but the last 2 trucks I've taken in they always push that worthless "multi-torque" crap. I guess the mechanics I always get to talk to don't know the meaning of "wide open"! I always tell them, it's my truck and I don't care about the fuel I just want it to GO when I stand on it! I pick up the truck, and again no difference.

That's why I haven't even bothered taking the new one in. I guess if you want power you have to go aftermarket.



I have another question. I have 7 trucks (3406E, C-15's) and on most of them the sticker on the oil cooler says max hp 550. CAT told me when they were uprated they said that 550 was the highest. On my 03 (bridge engine) the sticker says max hp 525 and that was the highest that one could go. Now on the 06 it says max hp 625 but when I asked about that one they said 550 was the max, now if I have to do an "iron change" to get that extra 75hp then someone is dreaming. I mean if I can add 200hp to a pickup and do nothing more than change programming and turbo, then why do I have to change pistons to get 75 out of a 15. 2L engine?

 

[shawn huizenga]

there are two words to become very familiar with



Duty Cycle





Do I have a 700hp pickup? Yes. Can I use 700hp all day long? HaHa, not a chance! The same goes with trucks, you could have yourself 1,000hp 3406E, but the bottom line is the engine is designed to put out a certain amount of power and any increases over that reduces your duty cycle.



Shawn

 

[CPjMech]

I just wish I could get someone to turn mine up, but the last 2 trucks I've taken in they always push that worthless "multi-torque" crap. I guess the mechanics I always get to talk to don't know the meaning of "wide open"! I always tell them, it's my truck and I don't care about the fuel I just want it to GO when I stand on it! I pick up the truck, and again no difference.

That's why I haven't even bothered taking the new one in. I guess if you want power you have to go aftermarket.



I have another question. I have 7 trucks (3406E, C-15's) and on most of them the sticker on the oil cooler says max hp 550. CAT told me when they were uprated they said that 550 was the highest. On my 03 (bridge engine) the sticker says max hp 525 and that was the highest that one could go. Now on the 06 it says max hp 625 but when I asked about that one they said 550 was the max, now if I have to do an "iron change" to get that extra 75hp then someone is dreaming. I mean if I can add 200hp to a pickup and do nothing more than change programming and turbo, then why do I have to change pistons to get 75 out of a 15. 2L engine?

Lets see if I can get all your ?'s covered.

1. I stay away from the MT ratings. What do you mean by wide open? 2120rpm and 127mph are the max rpm/veh speeds aloud in the ECM (there are a couple voc ratings that allow 2300 gov speed, but hp still chops at 2100) What eng are you dealing with here?



2. The 3406E's & C-15's are albe to go from 475-550hp, below 455 it requires iron to goto 550. This all applies to engines built before Oct'02.



3. The bridge engines (Oct'02 engines Still C-15) were limited to 525 due to not being able to cert the 550hp. (although most were putting out over 600 due to the wrong fls/fts from the factory, service letters were issued for turbos and resetting fuel #'s)



4. The new ACERT C15's (twin turbo eng) are broke down into 2 diff ratings. 435-550 & 600-625hp. Due 2 diff certs, cooling packages and drivetrains you will never be able to rerate a 550 any higher. If you want a 600 or higher you will have to order from the factory.



In the end all of this is from the EPA. Oh and BTW, you don't know how many head gaskets, exh sleeves and turbos we have repaired due to pittsburghpower. This is prob mostly due to what Shawn mentioned DUTY CYCLE!!! Yeah you can pull rated power and torque out of these things all day long, but when you increase the fuel rates the life of the eng goes down.



Hope I answered all your ?'s, if not ask away. PM me with your ESN and I'll try to check on rerateability for ya.

 

[JFaulkner]

I fully understand duty cycle and your 700 hp truck is probably over twice the oem designed hp, however I don't feel that an extra 150 hp is out of the question especially for a 15. 2L engine.



By "wide open" I mean hp and tq not rpm or speed. A guy on another forum who is a cat mech. said somthing about fls/fts settings that will make a 550 put almost 575 to the wheels but wouldn't give numbers.



As far as ordering 600 from the factory, I tried. When I ordered my 06 (in feb of 05) I wanted the 625 but it wasn't available at the time. (at least in the KW computer) And since the engine wasn't available I ordered the 475 with the driveline for 1850tq to allow for future upgrades. I also got the largest radiator that was available.



Keep in mind I'm not shooting for 1K hp street machine, but just like adding a 90hp EZ to a dodge just it makes it more pleasnt to drive.



Thanks for the info

 

[shawn huizenga]

I completely understand your concern about that very large engine and seemingly small power increases, but the reality of it is if Cat designed it for X amount of horsepower/torque with a specified hardware package(pistons, turbo, injectors) that's what it should be run at.



Your best bet would be to have it uprated to the max available with your hardware package, it'd be an improvement over what you have and probably enough to tide your power concerns over. You can add the Pittsburgh Power module and up your fueling and if you monitor your EGT's very vigilantly you'd get away with it. Smaller hills and acceleration would be improved a lot. It's when you get into a long hill you essentially be limited(EGT wise) to that engine's rated power because that's what the turbo, intake, heads, pistons, etc. were designed for. Any increase over that would cause an over temperature problem and ultimately lead to shorter engine life(at best) and more likely catastrophic failure of some engine part.

 

[CPjMech]

Just remember, with any of the factory ratings that eng w/ run 1,000,000 miles to overhaul w/ normal maint. As you start taking the power levels up start taking life to overhaul lower. With the EPA fines of $10,000 per day per voilation going directly to the tech and the dealer who took that eng out of factory spec, good luck finding a dealer to do it. I'll be honest, before 1998 I used to turn 550's to around 625 all the time, not anymore. I must say I like my job too much. The small eng market is under the same regs as heavy duty, but just isn't enforced by EPA. There's no money in it for them, but there is at dealer or fleet level.

 

[JFaulkner]

I'm not worried about overhauls since I never do them anyway. As soon as the tractors are paid for I usually sell them or they're moved to another route that doesn't run as many miles. I've never seen any justification in dumping 10k into an engine that's still in front of an worn out trans\axles. We've never been able to make any money with an old truck, they're simply a liability. I'm not into jeapordizing a 300k per year contract with a company by trying to keep an old truck going.



Now all that aside, I'm not really looking to go above and beyond what is "safe". However I'm less than satisfied with the reliability of the "techs" at both Cat and Cummins. A few years ago I took a truck to Cummins to have some engine parameters set. I bought the truck used as a spare. It came with the idle timer set, progressive shifting enabled, speed limiter set at 65 and the hp cut. All they had to do was do some clicking on a laptop and they managed to get 2 of the 4 requests right, so after the 2nd visit to my friendly Cummins shop I got what I paid for. Cat did the same, took a 99 3406E in to be uprated, again told them I wanted 550hp 1850tq and max tq rise they said ok. About 6 months later the water pump went out in VA so it was taken to another Cat dealer, water pump was repaired and the driver was talking to the tech and told him that the new 02 would run circles around this truck and it wasn't even broken in or turned up. The tech again plugged it in and checked it and it was set to multi torque. I guess what confuses me is what part of 550/1850 sounds anything like "multi torque"? After it was turned up the last time it was a totally different truck. I know there are good and bad people at any job, not all doctors are A+ students but I seem to be an idiot magnet. I would like just once to get everything that I paid for.



If you could, please tell me what I should ask for when I eventually take this new on in to be uprated. What parameters can be set and to what values, I'm looking for performance not economy, due to the nature of the job these trucks do fuel milage is a distant dream. (nothing illegal just maxium settings, keep in mind the techs here are like 3rd graders and need to be told everything) :-laf I'll try and get the ESN tomarrow. Thank again guys for all the info you've already given, I've already gotten more from you than anyone at KW or Ohio Cat.

 

[JFaulkner]

... ... and probably enough to tide your power concerns over.

Is this ever possiable? :-laf I'm like a woman when it comes to power, enough is never enough!



Pittsburgh power is like a rubber mallet, in the wrong hands you can break a anvil with it. My right foot is connected to my brain through my wallet! That tends to slow things down sometimes.

 

[E7mack96]

JFaulkner,



If you want power, find one of the 99-01 600 hp cats. . They kick Assssss.



What kind of hauling work do you do in Ohio ?? We haul for Ohio CAT & many others in Heavy haul



Tony

 

[CPjMech]

... The tech again plugged it in and checked it and it was set to multi torque. I guess what confuses me is what part of 550/1850 sounds anything like "multi torque"? After it was turned up the last time it was a totally different truck. I know there are good and bad people at any job, not all doctors are A+ students but I seem to be an idiot magnet. I would like just once to get everything that I paid for.



If you could, please tell me what I should ask for when I eventually take this new on in to be uprated. What parameters can be set and to what values, I'm looking for performance not economy...

On behalf of CAT sorry you ran into those bad apples. To me when someone says take it to 550/1850 that seems pretty simple(like I said earlier, I hate M/T ratings), and that's what I do (assuming all other drivetrain components can take it). And that's all you can do. BUT ask for a copy of before and after ecm config printouts. This will show all of your cust programable parameters as well as hp/tq settings, that way you know what you have (also handy in case of complete ecm failure). The factory defaults for speed and everything else are at there max's, if they are not there now chances are it was changed at the truck oem's factory during the rest of the programing.



Hope you get what you're after in the next visit to a dealer, when in Seattle we'll treat you right