I'm looking to buy a new truck and the only difference that I can see between the 1 ton SRW and the 3/4 ton SRW are the overload springs. I'd rather go with the 2500 because I can find it in my color and add the overload springs later. I plan to use it for heavy towing and I want to make sure I'm not loosing something else. The 1 ton has an additional 3K GCVWR.
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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission 3500 vs 2500
- Thread starter Cliffman
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I thought the 241HD transfer case was on the 3500 but not the 2500. You would have to get the snow plow package to get the HD transfer case on a 2500.
At least that used to be the case.
Also, back in '89 the single wheel 1 ton had a frame width 1" greater than the 3/4 ton. Don't know if the frames are different these days. Does anyone know if a 1 ton DRW has the same frame as a 3/4 ton?
At least that used to be the case.
Also, back in '89 the single wheel 1 ton had a frame width 1" greater than the 3/4 ton. Don't know if the frames are different these days. Does anyone know if a 1 ton DRW has the same frame as a 3/4 ton?
GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) is the maximum amount of weight that can be supported by the truck itself.
GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is the maximum allowable combined weight of the loaded truck and whatever it is towing.
If you know the actual laden curb weight (LCW) of your truck (that is, the actual scale weight with options, driver, passengers, accessories, hitch, fuel, etc. ), you can use the following equations to size a truck and trailer. Be careful, though, because the LCW can be 1,000 to 1,500 lbs greater than the assumed curb weight (base truck with 150 lb driver) Dodge uses to calculate trailer tow ratings.
Truck's GVWR - LCW = maximum allowable hitch/pin weight of loaded trailer.
Truck's GCWR - LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer.
Let's use my truck as an example. It has a GCWR of 21,500 lbs, a GVWR of 10,500 lbs and a LCW of 7680 lbs.
Truck's GVWR (10,500 lbs) - LCW (7,680 lbs) = 2,820 lbs maximum allowable hitch/pin weight of loaded trailer
Truck's GCWR (21,500 lbs) - LCW (7,680 lbs) = 13,820 lbs maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer
We tow a 13,500 lb 5th wheel that puts 10,800 lbs on the trailer axles and 2,700 lbs on the trailer's pinbox. As you see from the above, we are below our maximum allowable hitch/pin weight by (2,820 - 2,700) 120 lbs and below our maximum allowable total trailer weight by (13,820 - 13,500) 320 lbs.
We hit the road (according to certified truck scales) at 10,380 lbs GVW (10,500 GVWR) and 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 lbs GCWR).
The problem with any single rear wheel truck in 5th wheel towing applications is that the 5th wheel trailer carries so much of its weight on the pinbox (20% is typical). That weight is transferred to the truck as hitch or pin weight where it counts against the truck's GVWR.
If you have a 3/4 ton truck with (let's say) an 8,800 lbs GVWR and a LCW of 7,500 lbs, your maximum allowable pin weight is only 1,300 lbs - at 20% of total weight on the pin, that would be a loaded 5th wheel trailer weight of 6,500 lbs!
A SRW 1-ton truck with a GVWR of (let's say) 9,900 lbs and a LCW of 7,600 lbs would have a maximum allowable hitch or pin weight of 2,300 lbs, enough to handle a loaded 5th wheel trailer weight of 11,500 lbs assuming the same 20% pin weight.
A DRW 1-ton truck with a GVWR of (let's say) 12,000 lbs and a LCW of 7,750 lbs would have a maximum allowable hitch or pin weight of 4,250 lbs, enough to handle a loaded trailer weight of 21,250 lbs, except that such a weight would exceed the truck's GCWR of 23,000 lbs since the total of the LCW (7,750 lbs) and trailer weight (21,250 lbs) would be 29,000 lbs.
That's why SRW trucks (3/4 or 1 ton) are generally limited by their GVWR regarding the maximum weight 5th wheel trailer they can tow. DRW trucks, on the other hand, may hit their GCWR before they exceed their GVWR.
Rusty
GCWR (gross combined weight rating) is the maximum allowable combined weight of the loaded truck and whatever it is towing.
If you know the actual laden curb weight (LCW) of your truck (that is, the actual scale weight with options, driver, passengers, accessories, hitch, fuel, etc. ), you can use the following equations to size a truck and trailer. Be careful, though, because the LCW can be 1,000 to 1,500 lbs greater than the assumed curb weight (base truck with 150 lb driver) Dodge uses to calculate trailer tow ratings.
Truck's GVWR - LCW = maximum allowable hitch/pin weight of loaded trailer.
Truck's GCWR - LCW = maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer.
Let's use my truck as an example. It has a GCWR of 21,500 lbs, a GVWR of 10,500 lbs and a LCW of 7680 lbs.
Truck's GVWR (10,500 lbs) - LCW (7,680 lbs) = 2,820 lbs maximum allowable hitch/pin weight of loaded trailer
Truck's GCWR (21,500 lbs) - LCW (7,680 lbs) = 13,820 lbs maximum allowable total weight of loaded trailer
We tow a 13,500 lb 5th wheel that puts 10,800 lbs on the trailer axles and 2,700 lbs on the trailer's pinbox. As you see from the above, we are below our maximum allowable hitch/pin weight by (2,820 - 2,700) 120 lbs and below our maximum allowable total trailer weight by (13,820 - 13,500) 320 lbs.
We hit the road (according to certified truck scales) at 10,380 lbs GVW (10,500 GVWR) and 21,180 lbs GCW (21,500 lbs GCWR).
The problem with any single rear wheel truck in 5th wheel towing applications is that the 5th wheel trailer carries so much of its weight on the pinbox (20% is typical). That weight is transferred to the truck as hitch or pin weight where it counts against the truck's GVWR.
If you have a 3/4 ton truck with (let's say) an 8,800 lbs GVWR and a LCW of 7,500 lbs, your maximum allowable pin weight is only 1,300 lbs - at 20% of total weight on the pin, that would be a loaded 5th wheel trailer weight of 6,500 lbs!
A SRW 1-ton truck with a GVWR of (let's say) 9,900 lbs and a LCW of 7,600 lbs would have a maximum allowable hitch or pin weight of 2,300 lbs, enough to handle a loaded 5th wheel trailer weight of 11,500 lbs assuming the same 20% pin weight.
A DRW 1-ton truck with a GVWR of (let's say) 12,000 lbs and a LCW of 7,750 lbs would have a maximum allowable hitch or pin weight of 4,250 lbs, enough to handle a loaded trailer weight of 21,250 lbs, except that such a weight would exceed the truck's GCWR of 23,000 lbs since the total of the LCW (7,750 lbs) and trailer weight (21,250 lbs) would be 29,000 lbs.
That's why SRW trucks (3/4 or 1 ton) are generally limited by their GVWR regarding the maximum weight 5th wheel trailer they can tow. DRW trucks, on the other hand, may hit their GCWR before they exceed their GVWR.
Rusty
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What it all boils down to is, if you're going to tow heavy as you said and if you buy the 2500 because it's sitting on the lot, I think you're going to be way over your GVWR. Whether or not that matters to you is a decision only you can make.
When we were shopping for our current truck, I had dealers looking literally all over the United States. They did not find one single truck like ours - color, options and the 4. 10 rear axle ratio required to get the 21,500 lb GCWR we needed to stay within ratings. Therefore, we wound up ordering the truck.
My experience is that there aren't a lot of trucks sitting on dealers' lots that are equipped and rated to tow heavy. If you want to stay within ratings, you either have to shop from a very limited selection, or you order the truck the way you want it.
JM2CW
Rusty
When we were shopping for our current truck, I had dealers looking literally all over the United States. They did not find one single truck like ours - color, options and the 4. 10 rear axle ratio required to get the 21,500 lb GCWR we needed to stay within ratings. Therefore, we wound up ordering the truck.
My experience is that there aren't a lot of trucks sitting on dealers' lots that are equipped and rated to tow heavy. If you want to stay within ratings, you either have to shop from a very limited selection, or you order the truck the way you want it.
JM2CW
Rusty
The only difference between a 3500 and a "properly optioned" 2500 is the extra tires. Some 2500's don't have the heavy duty transfer case, or the overloads like you've already found. There are many 2500's out there that are optioned out with the same drivetrain and suspension as the 3500.
Matt
Matt
2500 v. 3500?
Hey, in any argument between a 2500 or 3500, the issue often comes down to overhead clearance lights. You want 'em, go with the 3500 SWR (or DRW if you need the additional load carrying capability or stability).
OTOH, if you want the same engine, same truck (minus the lights, a couple of leaf springs which you can add later, etc. ) go with the 2500. Check the sales brochure for details.
Hey, in any argument between a 2500 or 3500, the issue often comes down to overhead clearance lights. You want 'em, go with the 3500 SWR (or DRW if you need the additional load carrying capability or stability).
OTOH, if you want the same engine, same truck (minus the lights, a couple of leaf springs which you can add later, etc. ) go with the 2500. Check the sales brochure for details.
2500/3500
Well lets see. Obviously if you are talking SRW vs DRW there is a difference of two tires.
I think the question was what is different about the 3500 SRW vs. the 2500.
Immediately we return with load ratings and cab marker lights and dual wheels etc. That is not what he asked. The man just want's to know what is really different. Like if the 2500 frame is made of steel and the 3500 is made of titanium that would be different regardless how they are used or rated.
I cannot comment on the "New" trucks as I have not looked at them that close but on the older trucks like say a 1999 there is no difference in the FRAME, REAR SPRINGS etc between a 2500 and a 3500.
The cab and chassis 3500 is a whole different beast and does have heavier springs and heavier frame etc than the standard 3500 or 2500. (But we weren't talking about a cab & chassis were we).
Bottom line there is no difference in component strength between the 2500/3500 as far as the frame, springs, axle etc (think about it ) why build two different frames - just use the same frame and "rate" them differently- That is exactly what Dodge does and thats ok with ME.
Overload springs are "OPTIONS" and cannot enter the argument as they are available on both trucks. They just come standard on the 3500. Besides they suck and should be replaced with airbags if you really want to tow heavy anyway.
And by the way the NV241HD t-case is standard with the diesel 2500 or 3500.
The 3500 WILL NOT victoriously haul 15,000 pounds in the bed while the 2500 can only haul 2,000 pounds before the frame or some other component snaps as some 3500 owners try to imply.
Legally the 3500 can haul more and you should probably get the 3500 if you plan to approach the weight limits and care about staying within them.
Not meaning to stir the pot just looks like there were a lot of opinions and 8 reply posts and the question was still unanswered.
Well lets see. Obviously if you are talking SRW vs DRW there is a difference of two tires.
I think the question was what is different about the 3500 SRW vs. the 2500.
Immediately we return with load ratings and cab marker lights and dual wheels etc. That is not what he asked. The man just want's to know what is really different. Like if the 2500 frame is made of steel and the 3500 is made of titanium that would be different regardless how they are used or rated.
I cannot comment on the "New" trucks as I have not looked at them that close but on the older trucks like say a 1999 there is no difference in the FRAME, REAR SPRINGS etc between a 2500 and a 3500.
The cab and chassis 3500 is a whole different beast and does have heavier springs and heavier frame etc than the standard 3500 or 2500. (But we weren't talking about a cab & chassis were we).
Bottom line there is no difference in component strength between the 2500/3500 as far as the frame, springs, axle etc (think about it ) why build two different frames - just use the same frame and "rate" them differently- That is exactly what Dodge does and thats ok with ME.
Overload springs are "OPTIONS" and cannot enter the argument as they are available on both trucks. They just come standard on the 3500. Besides they suck and should be replaced with airbags if you really want to tow heavy anyway.
And by the way the NV241HD t-case is standard with the diesel 2500 or 3500.
The 3500 WILL NOT victoriously haul 15,000 pounds in the bed while the 2500 can only haul 2,000 pounds before the frame or some other component snaps as some 3500 owners try to imply.
Legally the 3500 can haul more and you should probably get the 3500 if you plan to approach the weight limits and care about staying within them.
Not meaning to stir the pot just looks like there were a lot of opinions and 8 reply posts and the question was still unanswered.
hmmm
Well, in older models equiped with Dana axles,
the 2500 had a Dana 70 rear and the 3500 had the beefier dana 80 rear.
I don't know about the new ones with the American Axles. they make the awesome GM 14 bolt. I would want to know if there is a difference in the rear axles between 2500 and 3500 as there has been historically with the Danas.
Well, in older models equiped with Dana axles,
the 2500 had a Dana 70 rear and the 3500 had the beefier dana 80 rear.
I don't know about the new ones with the American Axles. they make the awesome GM 14 bolt. I would want to know if there is a difference in the rear axles between 2500 and 3500 as there has been historically with the Danas.
Wiredawg
TDR MEMBER
The Spring Packs are different
The spring packs are differnt on a 2500 w/ overloads and a 3500. When I had a 2000 2500, me, Larry Willard (3500) and Tom Sweeney (another 2500) compared our spring packs. For the same years, the 3500 had a different code # stamped on the sides. Also, my 02 3500 sits level where my 2500 squated with the 3400 pound pin weight of my 17K lb 5th wheel. There is more of a difference than just two tires.
Wiredawg
The spring packs are differnt on a 2500 w/ overloads and a 3500. When I had a 2000 2500, me, Larry Willard (3500) and Tom Sweeney (another 2500) compared our spring packs. For the same years, the 3500 had a different code # stamped on the sides. Also, my 02 3500 sits level where my 2500 squated with the 3400 pound pin weight of my 17K lb 5th wheel. There is more of a difference than just two tires.
Wiredawg
Groover -
<"Bottom line there is no difference in component strength between the 2500/3500 as far as the frame, springs, axle etc (think about it ) why build two different frames - just use the same frame and "rate" them differently- That is exactly what Dodge does and thats ok with ME. ">
I know for a fact that the '89 SRW 1 ton Cummins had a stronger frame then a 3/4 ton Cummins did. I special ordered a SRW in 89 because of this. At this time, both trucks had the same transfer case, a NP205.
<"And by the way the NV241HD t-case is standard with the diesel 2500 or 3500. ">
This never used to be:
I know for a fact when I went to order my '94 Cummins, if I wanted to get the 241HD transfer case I had two choices. Either order a 3/4 ton with the snow plow package or get a 3500. Even though the 3/4 ton had a Cummins it DID NOT come stock with the 241HD. I remember specifically crawling under a 3/4 ton WITH A CUMMINS on the dealer lot to make sure. At that time you could tell the 241HD from the 241 by a PTO cover on the passenger side.
Now, would Dodge change this? Maybe, but if I were trying to find out the exact differences between the two I would find a dealer that had them in stock, take a tape and measure the depth and width of the frame (just behind the cab) and I would check for the 241HD. And one last thing, my 89 SRW 1 ton had larger drum brakes then a 3/4 ton(found that out the hard way).
And you can't go by what a salesman tells you.
<"Bottom line there is no difference in component strength between the 2500/3500 as far as the frame, springs, axle etc (think about it ) why build two different frames - just use the same frame and "rate" them differently- That is exactly what Dodge does and thats ok with ME. ">
I know for a fact that the '89 SRW 1 ton Cummins had a stronger frame then a 3/4 ton Cummins did. I special ordered a SRW in 89 because of this. At this time, both trucks had the same transfer case, a NP205.
<"And by the way the NV241HD t-case is standard with the diesel 2500 or 3500. ">
This never used to be:
I know for a fact when I went to order my '94 Cummins, if I wanted to get the 241HD transfer case I had two choices. Either order a 3/4 ton with the snow plow package or get a 3500. Even though the 3/4 ton had a Cummins it DID NOT come stock with the 241HD. I remember specifically crawling under a 3/4 ton WITH A CUMMINS on the dealer lot to make sure. At that time you could tell the 241HD from the 241 by a PTO cover on the passenger side.
Now, would Dodge change this? Maybe, but if I were trying to find out the exact differences between the two I would find a dealer that had them in stock, take a tape and measure the depth and width of the frame (just behind the cab) and I would check for the 241HD. And one last thing, my 89 SRW 1 ton had larger drum brakes then a 3/4 ton(found that out the hard way).
And you can't go by what a salesman tells you.
Grover is quite possibly correct. The only differences (that I'm aware of) in the 3rd gen 2500 vs 3500 SRW is the clearance lights, overload springs and 900 lbs more GVWR rating. I'm not sure you can get overloads on a 2500.
What puzzles me, is that while there may not be any huge design differences between the two, why would anyone who knows they're going to be towing or hauling heavy NOT get the 3500 SRW over the 2500? I mean, its one thing if you already have the truck, but I can't get my head around the rationale for not getting the 3500 when purchasing a new truck knowing what you're going to do with it. These things cost too much money to make a mistake. I'm still paying for my 2500 mistake, but at least I didn't know I was going to have a unit that would put me over 10,000 lbs GVWR when I bought it.
Dave
What puzzles me, is that while there may not be any huge design differences between the two, why would anyone who knows they're going to be towing or hauling heavy NOT get the 3500 SRW over the 2500? I mean, its one thing if you already have the truck, but I can't get my head around the rationale for not getting the 3500 when purchasing a new truck knowing what you're going to do with it. These things cost too much money to make a mistake. I'm still paying for my 2500 mistake, but at least I didn't know I was going to have a unit that would put me over 10,000 lbs GVWR when I bought it.
Dave
Dave, the reason I'm considering a 2500 is because there is an abundance of them, therefore lending to many more options like paint color, interior selections and so forth. In addition, there is some "killer finance deals" out there right now and if I order a truck those deals might not be around in 8-12 weeks. If the dealer would lock in my 0% financing, my 500 over invoice and my 1000. 00 cash back + other little goodies there throwing in I would just order exactly what I want.
Fair enough, Cliffman
After all I bought my '03 to get the 0% rather than an '04. and even though my truck ended up very close to my ideal order, I probably would have gotten a different color had there been more choices available. I like the Patriot Blue, but it shows chips and scratches too easily.
I guess my point is, that if it were me, I would get the 3500 SRW and the good deal, and if that meant I ended up with a different color or a few options one way or the other, then that's what I'd do.
Good luck in your search
Dave
After all I bought my '03 to get the 0% rather than an '04. and even though my truck ended up very close to my ideal order, I probably would have gotten a different color had there been more choices available. I like the Patriot Blue, but it shows chips and scratches too easily.
I guess my point is, that if it were me, I would get the 3500 SRW and the good deal, and if that meant I ended up with a different color or a few options one way or the other, then that's what I'd do.
Good luck in your search
Dave
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