360, 4500, 5600

[swankmetal]

geetrag is about to take a HUGE dump. 1,2, and 3 are makin serious rattlin' sounds. so, i've heard that a properly built 360 is actually a half-way decent transmission. not that a "half-way decent" transmission is what i'm looking for, and the tax check is right around corner , and "making , um, things fit" is my specialty. lemme know your choice. and the good vs bad of that choice. thanks



dave

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

Hey 'Swank... go with the NV4500 conversion. It is a fairly "tried and true" change and it is a real nice unit.

I'd also recommend you do the 13 1/4" conversion (I think he put a Con O in it) when you do it. The larger surface area is worth the $$$.

I just posted on this topic in another thread... . my brother did this on his 92 and he is happy as pig in muck.....



pb... .

 

[bgilbert]

How has the fluid level been in it? You did overfill by at least one quart right? Since you seem like you can turn a wrench, I'd suggest pulling the transmission and opening it up and see if you can fix it yourself. The 4500, and 5600 route is high dollar, and unless you intend on working, towing with the truck, IMO not worth it. Just a bombed truck, I think the getrag is good enough. Just think what that $3k could be spent on engine mods and or clutch instead of a 4500. I vote 360!

 

[JLEONARD]

I'd go 4500 if I had the cash and planned on keeping the truck. No question.

Jay

 

[Greenleaf]

Automatic



Scott

 

[MMiller]

Depends on what you are wanting too do. If you are going to use your horse for heavy towing, with the power you have, then I would go the 5600. If you are just building a go fast, fun truck then the getrag or the 4500 will do. If you are building a go fast, fun truck then the extra gear the 5600 has will be a little of a hindrence. Then again if you are going to be truck pulling then the 5600 offers another ratio for pulling, then you would want a twin disc clutch.



Someday I think I might go to the 5600, as I tow quite exensivly, and have pretty good power. That being said though, the getrag in my truck was replaced at 60,000 miles, and now has 216,000 on it, with no problems yet.



Michael

 

[ARedetzke]

If I had unlimited funds, I'd go 5600. That not being the case, when my time comes, it will be a 4500. Much easier, and cheaper conversion to do.

AJ

 

[swankmetal]

wow! good response. thanks guys. now for the questions.



pb, weren't you saying not to long ago that there were some issues with the 4500 cracking? i have to admit that i didn't follow the thread, so maybe i'll try to find it.



bg, thanks for the words of encouragement! that might be my first step. 3k, is that for all the parts, or just the transmission? there a seller on ebay that has 4500's and 5600's, $1100 and $1800 respectively, with 12mo, 12,000 mile warranty. fresh remans. anyway, i have had the transmission overfilled since before i started bombing. PO did not though, with somewhere around 200k on his 2nd one, and many of those miles were hauling horsies around. so i'd say that it's had a pretty long life. especially with the abuse that i've thrown at it.



j, why? just curious.



gl, the tax check ain't gonna be THAT big scott . i've had that thought in the back o' the brain though.



mm, what i want, is to not have to worry about it. i don't do very much towing at all, but when i do, it's pretty heavy. mostly just getting from here to there. fast.



anyway, thanks again.

dave

 

[1stgen4evr]

poll

The 360 is more than a decent transmission but the fwd will put more than it can stand if you use the foot heavy. I saw an automatic on ebay that went for 400. (94 year model). From what I can understand, the automatics have been upgraded to the point that they will tote the mail. I have a Getrag and two 518s and like them both but for different reasons. I have a blown 4500 and don't see enough difference to make me want to do the expense of conversion. From what I have read here, the 5600 has some lingering issues when retro fitted to our trucks. There really isn't a transmission that is perfect for these trucks as there is such a range of application for the various owners. If you get a good rebuild and keep the lube correct on the getrag, you should get good service as long as you don't use the foot too heavy. Now that is a lot of ifs.



So it comes down to 'how big is the tax check and how will you use the truck'.



James

 

[bgilbert]

$3k is a brand new 4500 not reman from quad4x4, comes with the kit- everything you need to put the 4500 in your truck. Even if you did get one of those ebay turds at $1100 or so then you will still need the conversion kit that one of our vendors sells at $600 or so. If I were to go the 4500 route, I'd want a brand new not reman transmission. The 6speed would be nice, but search for a thread started by Marty1, he did the swap, and lots of info about it. Off top of my head, need new starter, clutch, engine adaptor, drive shafts modified, fabb work for the crossmember etc... So like James said, it all comes down to how you will use the truck. If your competent enough, have someone send you the getrag rebuild manual on pdf format, tear it apart, buy the replacement parts from a reputable vendor such as Standard gear, who seems to be a good place for getrag parts.

Now if I had unlimited funds and a 2wd, I'd go with a Eaton fuller super 10 or 13 speed and a 3. 07 rear end.

 

[swankmetal]

well, should be getting about 2500-3000 from the guvment. and what i was thinking about price with an auto, was having it built. from everything i've read, it's not cheap. like in the range of 4-5g just for the upgrades. could be way outa wack on that one though. haven't spent the time to do a cost analysis or anything yet. and not using the foot very heavy is OUT OF THE QUESTION. it's just way too much fun to watch smoke roll out the stack for 1/2 mile on some deserted road. and such things as twins and MORE fuel aren't going to help the situation. what are "lingering" issues with the 5600 you speak of?



thanks for the insight

dave

 

[swankmetal]

bg, i will read that thread. i remember reading one on dtr last year about a guy that did it. he was happy with the results. it is a job though.



dave

 

[1stgen4evr]

lingering issues

Reading about problems with the clutch throw out collar. Mods are required and short service life in some cases.



On the Eaton, an rto 610 would be what I want. Ten speed, twin countershaft overdrive, 600 torque range. Would need a different input shaft and drive yoke as well as air to shift the compound. I don't think you could exceed the capacity of that one. Got one spotted for 600 dollars but I just don't care for the wrenching any more.



James

 

[tugboatphil]

well, should be getting about 2500-3000 from the guvment.

Ummmm, Dave, that's the money they took from you that has been sitting in their pockets not earning interest!!!



Sorry, I'll go back to looking for black helicopters.

 

[swankmetal]

yeah, i know. but it sure is nice to get it back. just in time to spend it all.

 

[JLEONARD]

j, why? just curio

Because from what I have read over the years the 4500 seems to have the best cost to hassle to usability ratio. Plus I really don't want to have to do any extra rowing so I'd stick with a 5 speed.

Jay

 

[bflood]

Go with the NV4500. Been there - done that! Make sure you get the conversion with the latest mods.



In addition to TDR members negative comments about the GETRAG, I have a top shelf/expert transmission rebuilder/friend, who looked at my old GETRAG and researched rebuilding it. He refused to rebuild it because of its weak design. Enuf said!

 

[swankmetal]

well thanks for the info guys. much appreciated. sounds like the 4500 is going to be it. until then though, does anybody know where i could find that getrag manual bill was talking about?

 

[JLEONARD]

Swank,

I have the manual in pdf format. Send me an e-mail to

-- email address removed --

and I'll reply with it.

Jay

 

[RWWinslow]

I am at 380,000 on a 360 with one re-bearing and new input shaft at 250,000. Gearing is starting to make some odd noises so I will be at a descision point soon, also. It seems to be difficult to find good replacement parts for the 360 and it is also difficult to find someone who will properly re-build the unit. However, several transmission shops have also stated that the 4500 will not reliably exceed 200,000 miles behind these engines.



Since I rebuild and perform failure analysis on a lot of very large industrial machinery, I would suggest that the best one can do is minimize risk and apply the proper application that best fits your scenario. Unfortunately there is no right answer to this problem.