Archived 38,600 Miles 2002 - 6 Speed Clutch Failure

[MARSHMELLOWS]

I need the "CURRENT TDR THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS" on a clutch replacement. Mine failed instamatically yesterday. With this up n my face, I have not been able to review TDR history to confirm the 'latest opinions' on which clutch replacement choice is best. I anticipate Peter @ SOUTHBEND is still the choice I should be considering. I will be trying to contact a couple of NORTWEST BOMBERS in the Seattle, WA area for a local recommendation on getting the clutch replaced. INSERT OPINIONS HERE.....



With my 36,000 warranty just behind me, I just had my clutch FAIL yesterday. One of the items of warranty concern was how rough my trans has always shifted. I even allowed them to change the trans oil (@ near $100) My last post on TDR cover all my pre-warranty visit whinning.

Is anyone aware of any related technical service bulletins or recalls relating to my year/model ? Wishful thinking. However, I'd expect I'm S. O. L... ... ...



Yesterday I was driving through town, as I came to a stoplight, I was unable to put the trans in neutral. I had to turn it off to get it in gear. I limped it to the dealer on my way to work. "The Dodge dealer overview" determined I need a clutch. Did you know the clutch is only covered for 12,000 miles ? I'm a bit miffed as to why it failed. I recognize the dealer could only anticipate I must have abused/misused it. I have always driven a vehicle with a clutch, so be kind. My 2002 has not been offroad, has pulled my trailer very little, and has never been tortured. I've only wasted one clutch in my life. It was over 35+ years ago, when I side stepped the clutch at a signal light to impress my girlfriend. The agony of defeat !!!



Yes, this is my daily driver. If anyone has a friend or can recommend a reputable individual or local shop for this work, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks for your help.

 

[Evan A. Beck]

Sounds like your issue could even be due to bad clutch hydaulics. If you do end up needing a cluth, a South Bend Con O or OFE would work pretty good.



How much power do you have now, and how much do you want?

 

[MARSHMELLOWS]

Thanks for the response Evan.

I pull a 28 ft trailer a couple of times a year. My power needs are "LIGHTWEIGHT". I'd expect my future desire for "more power" would not exceed an EDGE EASY and larger injectors. If I was out of 100K warranty (warranty-what a joke) I think an EDGE COMP in addition to the larger injectors, would meet/exceed all of my power appetite.



Like I said earlier, I'm the only driver of this vehicle and do not fear a stiffer clutch. I'd prefer something "beefier" if it's beneficial.



Any suggestions on confirming the clutch hydraulics as a cause of the problem? Thanks.....

 

[Evan A. Beck]

I see you are close by...



Might want to give us a call and schedule a checkout. Just ask for Matt or Lenny.

 

[DCaswell]

Keep us posted, I bet it isn't the clutch. Sounds like bearing or hyd. problem. The type of driving you are doing just should not hurt the clutch. IMO alot of dealerships would cheerfully install a new clutch & bearing and send you on your way.

Good Luck :-laf

 

[lmills]

give peter a call at southbend. he might be able to shed some light on the situation. sounds like it isn't the clutch though. sounds like what the others have said. anyway, the clutch isn't covered under the 36,000 mile warranty. it's only covered for 12,000 miles. it's rated the same as brake pads, normal wear items.

 

[rkressg]

Are you sure it is not yoru slave cylinder? Is the pedal extreamly soft? The hub of the factory clutch is made using fairly heavy construction, it is more common for the wear surface to wear-out before a hub failure.

I am on my third clutch, the first (factory) was changed because of slippage with increased HP and torque. The second clutch literally exploded, and now I am running a Soutbend FE. When this one blows apart, I will change to a dual-disk setup.

I just doubt it is an actual clutch problem, but probably something else.



If you have the entire thing apart to check, you might as well change to a heavier clutch, possibly an OFE or an FE.



-Rich

 

[Kirwin]

Clutch problems

I had a clutch failure on my 89 Ram with the old Sachs clutch that was the result of one of the center disc conical springs shattering and the pieces falling down between the clutch faces that resulted in the strange clutch action you described above. I have the South Bend Clutch 13" Con O in my 97 and I think its a great clutch. Its avaliable for either the 5 speed or 6 speed. It has stock clutch pedal pressure and is not grabby at all. I can back my heavy Travle trailer up hills in reverse and slip it some and it works like a champ. I'm very satisfied with it. Its not cheap though. Nothing of quality is. when I get ready to replace/upgrade the clutch in my 03 it will be a SBC clutch. All the above IMHO Ken Irwin

 

[wcjp]

Since your broke locally, I say DDP or The Power Shop. Somebody over at NWbombers would be able to tow you to either. I think the PowerShop has vehicle drop off on Saturday's. I don't know the current hours for DDP.

 

[MARSHMELLOWS]

Clutch

THANKS for all the support and ideas from my fellow TDR Members...

In response to some of the questions: Yes, the clutch pedal is not the same as it was prior to the failure. My gauge of this difference is a bit uncertain.



Kirwin, your clutch discrepancy seems similar to mine.



rkressg, "hydraulics" will be something I plan to explore this weekend. I've heard the same things you said about the "stong clutch center" on the stocker.



A local, reputable shop indicated I should select the Southbend 13 inch clutch retrofit kit. Includes a new larger flywheel, and the bigger (than stock) 13 in. clutch, etc. .



Peter @ Southbend was real busy and hard for me to catch today. I hope to discuss my specifics, with him on Monday.



Any additional thoughts would be appreciated. I'll keep you all updated on my pathetic "slow as a snail" clutch replacement. Thanks... Jim

 

[rkressg]

I forgot to mention this earlier, but I have suffered from either three or four slave cylinder failures (I can not remember exactly how many). They all have had the same symptoms, that of a weak clutch. I would push in the clutch, and it would feel like there was absolutely no resistance. The clutch would not disengauge.

-Rich

 

[MARSHMELLOWS]

Clutch Update

I talked with Peter @ Southbend and he too believes, I have clutch hydraulic problems. Peter asked me 3-4 questions and from my replies, he said ". . Replace your hydraulics. " Southbend's staightforward, honest opinion was quite refreshing. Peter also felt, the limited ammount of "clutch dragging" since mine failed, would not have destroyed my existing clutch.



I thought I would be making a big "credit card dive" to get my truck running. Now I'm wondering If (and how) I can get the dealer to cover this discrepancy. Or,... silly me,... Perhaps, clutch hydraulics might also be like wiper blades, clutches and brake pads, (12,000 or 12 months)



Any opinions, suggestions, or experience with dealers on clutch pedal hydraulics and warranty coverage relating to drivetrain failure??? What are we talking $$$ ? Is the slave cylinder / hydraulics replacement a big deal to complete? Thanks. .



Several of you indicated "clutch hydrauliucs" in your previous responses. Thanks for your thoughts too... I'm headed that direction now... ... . Thanks again... . Jim

 

[Black-Smoker]

I don't know about the 6 speed but the dealer quoted me 270. 00 for the hydraulics for my 5 speed. Napa was a little less but did not come as a sealed unit with fluid in it like the dealer did IMO the extra 40. 00 is worth not having to bleed the system.

 

[rkressg]

I can look up the part number and price for a clutch slave/master combo from MOPAR. I can not remember, but it cost me around $150 (but I have seen the price upto $270) for the parts, and only takes 20 min to install.



Talk to the parts and service manager. See if you can buy the replacement parts and change them. If that fixes the problem, see if they will help you out with payment/reimbursment. I have done that before with my local dealer. I like it, because I fix it myself, and the dealer likes it because they get paid for labor they did not peform.



I forgot, the 5-speed and 6-speed use the same slave/master combo.

 

[MARSHMELLOWS]

New Slave Cylinder Replacement On Thursday !!

I've scheduled to have the slave cylinder assy reviewed/replaced by a local shop on Thursday. For "shuckles and grins" I recontacted the Dodge dealer to see if Dodge would cover parts (That is, if I cured the problem by replacing the slave cylinder). Dodge will not reimburse me unless they remove the slave cyl. :{ They still believe I have a clutch problem (and not a hydraulic issue). Without trying to second guess them, I perceive their awareness of slave cylinder failures was somewhat limited. They were polite, respectful, and kind, but... ... ... ... ... ... were only willing to reevaluate my viewpoint, if I brought the truck back to the dealer. Their first evaluation cost me, slightly less than an hour of shop time. However, their recommendation of replacing the clutch with a "stock unit" was not to my liking. I should also say, they were willing to install whichever clutch I selected for my vehicle. Since I will be picking up the cost on any install, I will only allow someone with prior Southbend experience to "twist the wrenches. " Thursday will tell what I really need.



This is truly educational, and the kind of stuff "daytime TV" builds a whole season on. Thanks for all the input. Jim

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Since I will be picking up the cost on any install, I will only allow someone with prior Southbend experience to "twist the wrenches. " Thursday will tell what I really need.



Jim

SAve yourself the appointment and have friend sit in the cab, get something to lay on under the truck and have them step on the clutch a few times up and down. PLace your hand on the slave cylinder and feel for motion, if it is bad, you'll be able to tell. I usually go the extra step of unbolting the slave from the bellhousing which is a total of two bolts and trying it again. If you can also push in on the clutch fork with a screwdriver and it does not return or have any resistance, it is most likely the clutch. I highly doubt you have burned up the clutch that soon. Dealerships are known for doing nothing by parts swap troubleshooting these days. I know, I worked as a service writer for a dodge dealer in San Diego for four months before I lost all respect for myself and told them to shove their lies and upsales up their #$%. For the amount of money we pay for vehicles these days, the least we can ask for is the service dept's to actually know how to troubleshoot the issues. I doubt your service writer even asked the head line mechanic to inspect the throw length of the hydraulic assembly. By the way, the hydraulic setups in dodge trucks are known to go out around 80,000 miles. Some hold for 240,000 like mine, but others are crap from the start. For the cost of the labor alone, you can replace the entire hydraulic assembly in your driveway in less than an hour, that is even if you don't have a clue what your doing. It is brainless and if you order the part from Mopar, it will come as a kit pre-bled.

Good luck with it, I just had to do R/R mine this past week.

 

[MARSHMELLOWS]

Yes, The slave cylinder was leaking (and) Yes, it was replaced. However, I still have the same unresolved clutch engagement/disengagement discrepancy. RATS !!!! :{ :{



A clutch removal and evaluation is next.



I will initiate a new post to the forum "2nd Generation Eng/Trans" to get your opinions on what's my best choice should be. Thanks for your help.

Jim

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Yes, The slave cylinder was leaking (and) Yes, it was replaced. However, I still have the same unresolved clutch engagement/disengagement discrepancy. RATS !!!! :{ :{



A clutch removal and evaluation is next.



I will initiate a new post to the forum "2nd Generation Eng/Trans" to get your opinions on what's my best choice should be. Thanks for your help.

Jim

Jim,

Did you replace just the slave cylinder or did you have them install the entire kit? I would be concerned abou them getting the air out of the hydraulic clutch. One of the reasons I only replace the slave/master cylinder as a whole. If the air was not bled out, it will not improve, no matter how many slaves you have put in it. Master cylinder may have or is still leaking by, which will not be remedied with the clutch removal.



Almost forgot, there is a differencein the slaves from a 5 speed to a 6 speed, The part #'s from Raybestos are different and the diameter of the slave is smaller in the six speeds, this will result in a lng stroke using the same master cylinder with the 6 speed slave. If the 5 speed slave was installed, you'll not get enough depth to disengage completely.

 

[MARSHMELLOWS]

Yes,... the entire hydraulic unit was replaced. I kept the DC box it came in.



So,... . I got to know, what is the P/N for the 6 speed hydraulic unit ?

Jim