3G Review-None for me thanks

[EScott]

Dave Smith Motors had a sneak peak event for folks to come out and look at the new 2003 2500 2X4 Hemi and 3500 4X4 Cummins. While I understand that what I saw could very well have been a pre-production unit and some changes may be made here are my observations. Please keep in mind that I went with a very positive attitude.





Ground Clearance- Um I gotta question. Is DC going to advertise the "Lower Step In Height" of their new line of trucks? Why is this so freaking hard to understand. Trucks (4x4's in particular) are never to have the cab floor below the center line of the axle period. Go look at a 2002 3500 4X4 the cab floor is damn near level with the top of the wheel! Note to DC you shoulda left it alone fellas.



Backseat Legroom- Why did it take this long to roll out a true four door cab only to make it the same freaking size as my quad cab? With the front seat all the way back my knees are still smashed way to far into the seat back (I'm not quite 6')



No Lid Clearance- All the Rednecks, Hillbillys, and Cowboys are going to have a lot to complain about. I couldn't get in the seat with out taking my hat off first. The cab seems to be about 6" lower than the 94-02 model in relation to the top of the seat. Note to DC whenever building pickups think about men in hats FIRST everyone else comes after that.



Noise Binkey- I couldn't help but notice that although the new Cummins is considerably quieter (can talk next to an idling engine now, not exactly an improvement from my point of view) one of the items that wasn't present was the underhood noise blanket my truck has... I hope this was just an oversight on the demo truck.



Handholds/AlcanHandles/OHS#$tHandles- Alright this is getting to the point of comic level humor. Who other than the 'vertically challenged' needs a freaking handhold at the 4' level? Please put them in the roof where they belong or don't put them in at all. I do suppose that after a few to many OlyPops a fella could use those lower handholds to go from being on his knees to in the seat but that's not a selling point is it?



Underseat Storage- HOLY LACK OF FORESIGHT BATMAN! Where am I supposed to put my gear now? There is NO read NO, NONE, NACHO, NATHAN, NO underseat storage in back. They did put this really "Super" fold out thingy that makes the back area into a one level cargo area. I'm not sure what marketing weenie thought that deleting the underseat storage made sense but he ought to be shot for listening to the "Urban Cowboy" set. Pickups need a place to store: Recovery Gear, Survival Gear, Tie downs, etc. Before anyone goes running their mouth about bed boxes doing that sorry nope, I need all 8' of my bed.



Rear Swaybar- I don't honestly know if the trucks they had up there were fully loaded, but neither had the swaybar that DC has been putting on the 2500/3500's with the camper package. Seems like I remember they didn't offer it on the 94-95 trucks either so if this is a delete perhaps you'd be wise to wait for DC to come around on this one.





Conclusion:

I'm much more particular about what Dodge pickups I will own. I can say with conviction I will NOT be buying a 2003+ 2500/3500. If DC does the right thing and builds a 4500/5500 for the US with a true 4 door cab perhaps I'll come back to the fold but as of right now DC has lost me as a customer.



Because most of you don't know me very well I will explain that for me to say that I won't buy a new Dodge pickup is a big leap. I am and have always been a Mopar man to the core, I have always believed that Dodge built the best pickup on the market. I have NEVER been afraid to go toe to toe and debate the weaknesses of "Brand X" as compared to Dodge. Sad sad day my Mopar brothers and sisters.



Useful range of Dodge pickups is now defined as 1944-2002... RIP Dodge Trucks



Erin

 

[rmrc]

I also have many concerns regarding the new 2003 models. As you can see by my signature line, I've been waiting to see these new trucks in person so I can also evaluate them.



Untill I can evaluate one for myself, I'll hold off on any final opinion. However,,,,,, I have a feeling that I'll be looking for a good used 2000 - 2002 in the near future!

 

[nickleinonen]

Go look at a 2002 3500 4X4 the cab floor is damn near level with the top of the wheel! Note to DC you shoulda left it alone fellas



i don't see anything wrong with that. seeing that the current dodge trucks come with 265/75/16's factory biggest tire and with them under them, they look like little donuts. a little bit of wheel gap is ok, but the current ones at the local dealers with camper packages and snow plow prep and whatever else have like 12" of wheel gap when sitting unloaded. that to me looks like I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER. way too rednecky looking for my likes. . looks like this one guy in town with a 4" home made body lift and 31" mudders. . crappy looking. the wheel and tire combo must fill the wheel well nicely. too much wheel gap looks like crap, too little wheel gap [or none at all for some ricers] looks like crap too. . and you can have as much spring lift as you want, but your ground clearence will not change. . the diff pots will still be the lowest. . tires will give you clearence. .



current 2k2 are missing the underhood noise blanket too...

 

[EScott]

Originally posted by nickleinonen

Go look at a 2002 3500 4X4 the cab floor is damn near level with the top of the wheel! Note to DC you shoulda left it alone fellas



i don't see anything wrong with that. seeing that the current dodge trucks come with 265/75/16's factory biggest tire and with them under them, they look like little donuts.



current 2k2 are missing the underhood noise blanket too...

I think you missunderstood. What I was saying has nothing to do with the tire. Draw a line from the bottom of the cab level across the rim where does it land? On the current trucks it's far above the center line of the rim. That translates into making it harder to highcenter on the cab or framerails



As for the tires... I had them taken off my truck on the way home from the dealer. Factory tires are useless for my application.



Erin

 

[David Muench]

Dunno what to say, I haven't been in a HD truck but I test drove a 1500 quad cab to get a sense of the interior, and I loved it. Lots of head room (I'm 6'1"), there was storage under the rear seat, and I liked those handles. . I'll miss my A pillar gauge pods, but they'll be useful when I lift the truck. The pictures I have seen of the new HD 4x4s look like the difference in ride height is minimal. I have read that they nuked the hood liner on the 2003's (and 2002's) since they aren't needed, and that's good with me. Mine's just been a pain really, a mouse chewed part of it up to make a nest on top of my engine block when the truck sat for a week. Good riddance if it's not needed.



As far as the swaybar? No idea, hope mine has one. Not a big deal to add though if not. I'm sure Hellwig or someone will come out with a kit. I also had plenty of room in the back of the Quad Cab, and although I may be in the minority, I like the idea of a not-quite-crew-cab. I don't need the length of a full size crew cab, and the quad cab is perfect for me.



Noise. . That's gonna be the interesting part. I am looking forward to the truck being quieter at idle and being able to use drive thrus again. . Hopefully the truck can be noisyed up at higher rpm's though.



Just gotta ask though. . Have you seen a 3rd gen non-prototype truck? Like a 1500 on a lot? I wonder if there are differences. .

 

[paesan]

I do share some of your dissatisfaction on some of the designs errors. How can they design a truck that everyone wants to be bigger they actually make it smaller. It was an error to base it on the 1500. It does cut costs but it also add problems such as the engine barely fits in the engine bay, the interior room is the same of the 1500 and the DAMN FUEL TANK IS STILL TOO SMALL.

Why can't they just put a 55 GAL tank and save the people that tow 48 ft trailer some problems.

Overall I think it will be a good truck, with the best engine on the market. I will never own some brands just because of their history, and the other because of major headaches and resale value that plunged after 2 years.

So even though I love my 2001 it's time to say goodbye and get the new monster when the 0 financing is available.

 

[EScott]

Originally posted by David Muench

Dunno what to say, I haven't been in a HD truck but I test drove a 1500 quad cab to get a sense of the interior, and I loved it. Lots of head room (I'm 6'1"),





Noise. . That's gonna be the interesting part. I am looking forward to the truck being quieter at idle and being able to use drive thrus again. . Hopefully the truck can be noisyed up at higher rpm's though.



Just gotta ask though. . Have you seen a 3rd gen non-prototype truck? Like a 1500 on a lot? I wonder if there are differences. .

The headroom once you get in the seat isn't bad, it's the getting past the top of the door jamb that I had trouble with, I am NOT taking my hat off every time I get in and out of my truck. In all fairness it might be less of a problem with the non-power seats dunno.



I heard the engine started twice. It really is remarkable just how quiet it is at idle it sounds alot like my old 360 with lifters ticking. Off idle it's still got the familiar diesel sound at least with the hood open. I would imagine that cutting the muffler off would probably put a smile on everyones face



I climbed all over a 1500 a couple months back and was even more unimpressed. I wish DC had left the solid axle under the 1500 oh well. I seriously don't know how they could get the underseat storage back unless there has been a redesign of the whole back seat. As far as I could tell the seat sat maybe 1" above the carpet.



The really unfortunate thing is that I love the new body style.



Later

Erin

 

[jdh63]

I have an '02 Quad Cab Sport 4x4 w/ the 20" tire & wheel package and have put 20,000 miles on it in the last year. So far I have had no problems with the body or interior. There is a rear under seat storage compartment right below the fold out load floor. It is not huge but plenty large enough for jumper cables & recovery equipment. There is limited amount of headroom on entry and exit (I'm only 5'9").



I had a 98. 5 24 valve that was repaired 5 times in one year for erratic torque converter lock-up which led to me trading it in on the '02. The 360 in the '02 is pitiful to put it mildly. It has no horsepower and the gas mileage is terrible but I absolutely love the usefulness of the four doors and redesigned interior.



This vehicle will tow my 8. 5' x 24' car hauler loaded with bikes & gear to races but will also be my daily driver in city traffic & downtown parking garages. I can see where it is a disadvantage for some to not have a full size crew cab & bed but for me it makes this truck perfect.



Like most everyone I am disappointed by DC trying to civilize the Cummins by making it quiet. Just like a fiberglass body is synonymous with the Corvette so is the rattle with the Cummins engine. Oh well, I'll just have to remove the muffler.



All in all I'll be first in line at my dealer for an '03 HO when the automatic is available.

 

[kbarlow]

All in all I'll be first in line at my dealer for an '03 HO when the automatic is available



I'm glad you said that! I was worried I made a mistake.

 

[BIG BOB]

I have to agree with EScott! I am a big guy, 6'3', 350+. I cannot get into the 2003 rams without hitting my head on the door frame, and then after I get in, I only have 1" between my head and the headliner. I have set in the power seat version and also the manual seat. The manual seat is worst for head room. I don't usually wear a hat, however if I did there is no way I could in this truck! And I'm not a Redneck!



Dodge needs to remember that trucks are for MEN and that includes Big Men.



Dodge has sponsored the Professionial Rodeo for years, I bet they will loose a lot of Rodeo Cowboys just because they can't wear their hats.



4 doors? Come on Dodge, if your going to do it, let do it right! There is no way I could sit comfortably in the back seat of these trucks.



Overall, Dodge is cutting too many corners. The glove box was a joke! The HVAC controls look like they came out of the 1970's.



I will not be purchasing a Dodge with the NEW body style. I'll keep the "White Obsession".



As much as I hate to say it, I might have to look at one of these!



Ford Tonka Truck #1



Ford Tonka Truck #2



Ford Tonka Truck #3



Ford Tonka Truck #4



pickuptruck.com

 

[rmrc]

I still think that the new model has many positive inprovements. At this point, my biggest complaint is how they "shoe-horned" the new Cummins into that reduced engine compartment. It reminds me of sardines in a can!



One of the greatest enjoyments I get out of any vehicle is the ability to do my own servicing. After looking at the lack of access to many areas of the engine,,,,, servicing would be a nightmare instead of something that I would normally enjoy doing. Hell,,,,, it looks like more than half on the engine is shoved under windshield and the wheel wells are just about kissing the engine on the left and right!



I just can't see spending $35,000 to $40,000 on a vehicle that I can't service without becomming some kind of contortionist!



Yea,,,,,,,,,, the more I think about it,,,, I can spend a hell of a lot less buying a well maintained, used 2001, and still have some reasonable access to the engine.



Time will tell!

 

[Casey Balvert]

The Three bears

Just like the fairy tale, I am sure that the new truck will fit just right for some folks. I recall a lot of people that said the current generation was ugly way back in 94 and that they would never buy one. As far as service goes, we got spoiled by the room in the current generation trucks. Just take a look at Ferd and Cheby diesels if you want to see a shoe horn process.



I don't mind a quieter diesel even though I like the noise. I bought my current one to pull with and my wife complains about the clatter. Part of what sold her on the new one is less noise.



I don't want nor need a crew cab but some folks do. I sat in the back of a half ton and I don't think it was that bad. But I can understand why some of the taller people might have some concerns. My dogs will love it after being shoehorned into my regular cab.



I am not that concerned about height, I am buying a two wheel drive for pulling a fifth wheel. So low is better for me and probably for most of the rest of the world as well. But again some people want the ground clearance for off road.



In the end, it is individual preferences that will determine whether we will or will not buy the new truck. I like it. It has a lot of features that I want. Like changing the plugs on my 67 Ford with a 428 way back when, I will get around the service difficulties if they exist. That is why I am plunking down a considerable chunk of change on it.



The sales figures will ultimately tell if the world likes the truck or hates it. I for one like it and am looking forward to taking delivery. I know I will not be alone.



Casey

 

[JWerkheiser]

ditto

To each his own, right, CB? Of course, I better like em since I have one on order too.