4 wheel drive conversion

[RedRamAndy]

Hello all, I'm betting this topic has been touched upon before, but I wanted to start this thread as I couldn't find much when I searched. A little background: I have a D250 Getrag '89 that has appeared to have lived a very lightly used life. It has a Dana 70 with a 3. 54 sure-grip rear and very little rust. I love the truck, but it is almost helpless in very light snow or loose gravel. I had a gas fired W250 (4WD) that I sold because of rust and excessive gas hunger. My job with the state of Missouri requires that I get to a particular maintenance building to drive a snowplow in snow events. This is a huge responsibility that I can't miss. We just got a snow that proved to challenge my little R/T Neon's limits. I know that this car isn't intended for deep snow use, but it is my economy cruiser. I'm really missing my old invincible Power Ram and would like to turn my beloved Diesel into a snow monster. Around here, the 4x4's are very rusty and usually beat. My 2wd is in awesome shape, so I more interested in converting it than simply buying a 4x4. Has anyone attempted this? It doesn't seem too hard to me at all. I am starting a list of parts I need to source and trying to get a grip with the cost involved. I'm open for any ideas and advice from those who have already been down this road. I need help! ;-) Thanks. (maybe I need mental help?)

 

[JLEONARD]

I don't know about a conversion but I ran my 2wd for almost 7 years every day to work and then some... only got stuck once and that was for 30 min until a sander went by.

After that I switched to studded snows... never stuck again.

This year with the new truck studded snows also with 2wd. I keep up with all the 4x4s as a commuter.

Set your 2wd up for winter driving and you will be fine. Us guys from the north know how to do that

 

[RedRamAndy]

I appreciate the winter advice J, but I have deeper and darker secrets... I really should look for tractor, but I miss what my old 4wd gasser would do. I need to drag trees across creeks for cutting and dead cars around. That old Power Ram would do all that and blast through 2 feet of drifted snow at 40 mph for miles. I gotta stop. I gotta stop. I'm getting all misty-eyed. :{

 

[dseabaugh]

It may take a lot of work but I am sure it can be done. My first truck was a 1967 3/4 ton International 2 wheel drive. In 1975 I bought a 1966 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive travelall and converted my truck to 4 wheel drive. It was my daily driver until I rolled it in 1983. I had to drill out the rivits and replaced them with grade 8 fine thread bolts.

 

[Simplysmn]

Hello all, I'm betting this topic has been touched upon before, but I wanted to start this thread as I couldn't find much when I searched. A little background: I have a D250 Getrag '89 that has appeared to have lived a very lightly used life. It has a Dana 70 with a 3. 54 sure-grip rear and very little rust. I love the truck, but it is almost helpless in very light snow or loose gravel. I had a gas fired W250 (4WD) that I sold because of rust and excessive gas hunger. My job with the state of Missouri requires that I get to a particular maintenance building to drive a snowplow in snow events. This is a huge responsibility that I can't miss. We just got a snow that proved to challenge my little R/T Neon's limits. I know that this car isn't intended for deep snow use, but it is my economy cruiser. I'm really missing my old invincible Power Ram and would like to turn my beloved Diesel into a snow monster. Around here, the 4x4's are very rusty and usually beat. My 2wd is in awesome shape, so I more interested in converting it than simply buying a 4x4. Has anyone attempted this? It doesn't seem too hard to me at all. I am starting a list of parts I need to source and trying to get a grip with the cost involved. I'm open for any ideas and advice from those who have already been down this road. I need help! ;-) Thanks. (maybe I need mental help?)

What you might want to look for is a 4x4 frame then just swap your stuff over If you want to do a crewcab pm me I have 2 4x4 truck's available

getting back to 4x4 you would really need a donor truck to make it easy but to convert your's you need a 4x engine cross member and 4x trans then a T case front spring hanger's it's doable but will take some time I will send you a PM



Val

 

["Mad Max"]

well, the main parts needed will be:



- Dana 60 front axle with matching gears (a Dana 44 will not be enough)

- Set of front leafs and all the brackets

- 4wd engine crossmember

- 4wd transmission and crossmember

- Transfer case (29-spline mated NP205) and linkage

- Front driveshaft

- Rear leaf blocks (to level out the front)

- Off road tires (pot luck - lots of good options - I like Mickey Thompson MTZs, but there are likely better snow tires)



You'll have to hack out all of the 2wd front hardware/suspension, install the 4wd bracketry, install the leafs, the axle, RnR the transmission, bolt up the t-case, d-shafts, and all the linkage. It's all just nuts and bolts - pretty straight forward swap.



There is some electrical stuff but not much.



- Sam

 

[rumblefish]

you could run a divorced 205 setup instead of tracking down a 29 spline 205. im entertaining swapping my d350 to 4x4 after getting stuck 4 times in one day with a trailer, and thats how i am planning on doing it if/when it happens.

 

[RedRamAndy]

Thanks guys for the help so far. I'm going to plan this for a while before I do it. If I do go through, it will be next year at the earliest. I didn't expect that I would have to change the engine crossmember, that might be a deal-breaker. I'll have to think about this carefully. I was offered a 4x4 frame that I will probably chase down, but I'd rather cut rivets and re-bolt what I need than re-body that frame. I did plan on pulling my front clip to make this easier anyway. I have a fender to replace and it would be a good time to check for cowl cracks. I will look into the divorced 205 setup too. I like that idea. I would think it would help keep the weight a pinch farther back in the truck too. I got lots of thinkin to do!

 

[Dieselman359]

Come on down

Andy, I'm doing this exact thing as we speak. Your not that far, come on over and take a look at what is involved. I had no idea that the engine cross member had to be changed, and today I found out that none of the transmission cross member bolts lined up. I'm really getting tired of drilling holes in my truck. :-laf



Honestly, I think I should of bought a new truck:--) but I know that when I get it on the road you won't be able to wipe the smile off my face.

 

[rumblefish]

if you stick enough lift under it, i dont think you need to change the engine crossmember. i think you'd need at least 6" though.

 

[RedRamAndy]

I am beginning to see why that engine cross member needs to be changed. I thought I could just get by with removing the coil spring perches. I don't think I'm going to lift that much in order to keep that 2wd member in place. My wife is already skeptical about this whole deal and I know she doesn't want to use a ladder to get in. :-laf I have talked to a great friend of mine (who I originally bought this truck from) and he has been a great help. He has a couple of 4x4's he drives and a lot of knowledge on this. He warned me to just rebody a 4x4 frame to avoid any problems that may arise from vibration, stress and bolts that would be needed to fix my D series frame. I'm convinced. I will do that. He has a full frame with Dana 61 and 71 axles that I will probably get. I'm not sure of the gears, but this is my start. I am told that a sure-grip cannot be fit into the 61 front axle, so I'm going to try to find a 60 and use my 70 rear I have now.

Thanks guys, and I'm still open to ANY ideas you may have. Thanks!

 

[pepecat]

Dodge Ram Power Wagons from 1972 to 1974 had the divorced np205 setup. You should be able to take all the members from one of those rigs to have it bolt right in your truck. There are larger yokes that you can install on them that will increase the strength of the setup enough to really run it for a diesel setup. I was considering going this route but found an entire 4x4 donor so I didn't just need an engine for my w200 1974 crew.

 

[rumblefish]

those D61 and D71 axles have 3. 07 gears.

 

[Ncostello]

By the time you get done... you'll be mowing tall grass along those same highways!

My job with the state of Missouri requires that I get to a particular maintenance building to drive a snowplow in snow events. This is a huge responsibility that I can't miss.

I appreciate the winter advice J, but I have deeper and darker secrets... I really should look for tractor, but I miss what my old 4wd gasser would do. I need to drag trees across creeks for cutting and dead cars around. That old Power Ram would do all that and blast through 2 feet of drifted snow at 40 mph for miles. I gotta stop. I gotta stop. I'm getting all misty-eyed

Which is it? At first you sounded like you really need to just get to work. Then you admit its for fun stuff.



Just kiddin of course. Sounds like a fun project. I've often wondered this same thing since I've got a D250 that would just make a perfect 4x4. I always figured I'd just find a 4x4 chassis.



We had a 10" snow last week. I'm driving a hwy dept Ram 1500 4x4 with Firestont Destination AT 245/70-17's and anti-slip rear axle. I easily drove over piled up deep snow in the median cross overs. I noticed in my rear view that a F250 Powerstroke lifted with 20" wheels and about 40" tires got stuck right behind me. He had to back up and try it a few times while spinning like crazy. Sometimes those wide off road tires distribute weight too much and you don't get enough down pressure. I think.

 

[RedRamAndy]

Hey Ncostello, Well you figured me out! Truck conversion reasoning: 20 percent need-to-get-to-work and 80 percent needing-a-fun-tractor! Actually with all the projects I have to finish around here first, the truck won't see snow duty as a 4x4 until winter after next probably (Fall 2010).

You're right on the tires. My old gasser had narrow tall tires with a great snow lug tread. They would just slice right through the snow and plant the weight on the pavement. It worked very well.

 

[Tippin Spotted Cow]

I have often wondered if you could use the 2wd coil spring mounts on a 1st gen to mount coils and a 4wd axle off a 2nd gen truck. Then find a divorced ford np205 so that the front driveshaft is on the right side. That would give you the smoother ride of coils, along with a lot more room for a bigger exhaust.

 

[RedRamAndy]

I have often wondered if you could use the 2wd coil spring mounts on a 1st gen to mount coils and a 4wd axle off a 2nd gen truck. Then find a divorced ford np205 so that the front driveshaft is on the right side. That would give you the smoother ride of coils, along with a lot more room for a bigger exhaust.

Hmm... Keep talkin'. I love this type of group therapy. I've had all kinds of custom stuff in the past and am open for any ideas. Heck, grafted a 400 Plymouth motor into an old 69 F100 Ranger when I was 19. I just love unique stuff if it works better than the original. I wasn't fond of my old 4x4 gasser's leaf spring ride at all. My wife called it the Log Wagon. Coils... . I like it. I will try to find a 2nd Gen I can peek under and measure. Thanks!

 

[tugboat1st]

I think if you ask around you'll find you don't want any sure grip in either end. When you get on ice, control is much easier with open diffs. May very well make the difference between staying on the road and being in the ditch.

 

[RSchwarzli]

I have often wondered if you could use the 2wd coil spring mounts on a 1st gen to mount coils and a 4wd axle off a 2nd gen truck. Then find a divorced ford np205 so that the front driveshaft is on the right side. That would give you the smoother ride of coils, along with a lot more room for a bigger exhaust.

For those that are doing research on this, the 2nd gen front axle has the diff on the drivers side... . t case would have no where to send the power to.





What ever became of your project? Did you swap it in the end?

 

[pepecat]

it would be WAY easier and make more sense to mount/fab the coil buckets on the EXISTING pax drop KING PIN (read: better) D60 in our trucks than to shoe horn in a driver drop 2nd gen ball joint D60 and have to deal with the xfer case and all that. If you're even CONSIDERING this project, it would be a lot of fab. But way less fab to retrofit our D60 to a four bar link/custom setup that would put the stocker 2nd gen design to shame. You could even air bag the thing and be done with it and have a Cadillac smooth ride.