4500....I'm thinkin'.

[2Bear]

Howdy Yall,



Maybe you guys can poke a few holes in my NEW TRUCK thinking... ... (have at it).



I have no previous experience with diesels... ... . Ignorant to the bone.

( ... Way back when - I had a 1959 / 225 slant six Dodge with a 3 speed column shift that I pulled a 25 foot TravelEze around with for a couple years - believe it or not - it never gave me a problem )



Thinking that I like that 4500 Quad Cab / Asien with the 4:44 rear end / 84 inch Cab to Chassis.

Those 19. 5 wheels - I like that - (saves me from buying Ricksons).

Nice big ole brakes too... ... . and heavier axles supposedly.



I will be putting a flatbed on it and will occasionally be hauling several trailer types -

from horse trailer to flatbed to dump..... ( not commercially ).



The 4:44 is my biggest question -

I think it might be ideal in Wyoming and the mountain states - which is where I'll be.....

7000 feet most of the time - ( to bad there's not a split differential option ) .



I was talking with Jesse at Carli Suspension - and he says they can make a 4500 ride like

a 2500 and still keep its load ability with those LONG travel air bags they have.

If this is true - it gives the best of both worlds.



Question: That "Speed Delimiter" on the 4500 engine has me concerned - I don't want something telling me

I can only go 76 MPH - what if I need to get around something quick - and need it to go faster ?

Can I take that thing off ? Maybe its electronic and I could get it off with a Smarty or an Edge Juice ?



Toooo bad they don't offer the CC with the Megacab... ... . Toooo bad there's no paddle shifer on the Asien ..... Tooo bad..... Tooo bad.



Well that's about it - so whadda ya think ?





Ray





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[HBarlow]

Ray,



I wanted one but decided against it due to the suspension being too stiff, the gearing not ideal for my desired load and road speed, and the 76 mph speed limiter. I admire the large 15. 35" brakes and the sharp wheel cut angle which gives them a tight turning radius.



Air bags alone won't cure the suspension but if leaves were removed and air bags installed it could provide a smooth ride.



You can study the gearing for your application by using Ken Lenger's (TDR member "klenger") handy road speed/engine rpm calculator on his website. Go to the member list and do a search for "klenger" then look on his page for his website. On his website, under his Dodge, find the calculator. Select Aisin transmission, plug in the rear axle ratio and wheel/tire size and the calculator will tell you what road speed and rpm the truck will do in each gear.



A new member who owns a 4500 recently posted that he was not completely satisfied with his because he couldn't pull grades in 6th OD with his loaded horse trailer behind and for his application 5th OD resulted in higher rpm than he wanted.



I don't know but I'd guess it will be pretty hard to overcome the speed limiter. Maybe the aftermarket programmers will do it in time. My understanding is the speed limiter is installed by Dodge due to the speed rating of the 19. 5" tires.



Harvey

 

[2Bear]

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Hi Harvey,



Thanks for your reply.

Obviously I'm not totally convinced of my choice as yet - thats why I'm posting.



Jesse at Carli Suspension sounded like he knew what he was talking about with those long throw airbags -

They're not your regular everyday air bags..... they're really looooong.

I don't know how to find out for sure if they would solve the rough ride problem ... . short of doing it... ... .

but he says they will.



I did look up Ken Lengers tables and punched in some numbers - but I don't know if they tell the whole story - like when spending time at above 7000 feet elevation... ... how's that going to affect things..... I just don't know.



That speed delimiter is a problem.

Don't they have that delimiter on the 3500 Chassis Cabs too ?



Ray





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[HBarlow]

Ray,



If the air bag vendor is saying he can soften the ride simply by adding air bags without removing leaves from the factory spring pack he doesn't have much credibility with me. The factory springs don't flex, that's the problem. Air bags can only help if the leaf springs flex.



I'd guess that you'll want the 4. 44 gears and will have to run in 5th OD or even

4th direct for pulling a heavy trailer at 7,000 ft. because most areas where you would encounter that elevation probably includes steep grades, up and down. If pulling extremely heavy in the mountains, say 20k or greater trailer weight, you might even want the optional 4. 88 gears. Selecting gearing is always a matter of a compromise you can live with most of the time.



One of the great advantages of a modern turbodiesel engine is the turbo is stuffing air into the combustion chamber overcoming the decreasing air density with altitude. That enables a CTD to continue to operate as if it's at sea level until, I think, about 10,000 ft. At and beyond 10,000 ft. they lose some power but how often do you encounter that elevation except in an airplane?



Harvey

 

[2Bear]

Harvey,



Thanks again... ... I'll have to talk to Carli again next week a get a clearer picture of exactly what they do to the truck. I thought he meant the bag would just lift it up (with the top spring) - thereby making it "softer".



Guess you could take a leaf or two out and then put some of those MrTruck overloads on - that might work too.

Like I said - I know next to nuttin' about this stuff - so I labor under misconceptions - no doubt !



Maybe the 4:44 will work for me - I need to go over to Carson Dodge in Nevada and take a drive up Spooner Summit..... (and down) before I can get a real take on it.



I'm often at or over 10,000 foot passes - not to mention when in Colorado..... Love that high country.



I don't mind drivin' slower at least in the mountains with little or no traffic -

that takes care of the rpm problem I guess. ... ... . I'm not in a rush these days.





Ray

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[Baja_Mike]

Ray,



If the air bag vendor is saying he can soften the ride simply by adding air bags without removing leaves from the factory spring pack he doesn't have much credibility with me. The factory springs don't flex, that's the problem. Air bags can only help if the leaf springs flex.



I'd guess that you'll want the 4. 44 gears and will have to run in 5th OD or even

4th direct for pulling a heavy trailer at 7,000 ft. because most areas where you would encounter that elevation probably includes steep grades, up and down. If pulling extremely heavy in the mountains, say 20k or greater trailer weight, you might even want the optional 4. 88 gears. Selecting gearing is always a matter of a compromise you can live with most of the time.



One of the great advantages of a modern turbodiesel engine is the turbo is stuffing air into the combustion chamber overcoming the decreasing air density with altitude. That enables a CTD to continue to operate as if it's at sea level until, I think, about 10,000 ft. At and beyond 10,000 ft. they lose some power but how often do you encounter that elevation except in an airplane?



Harvey

No the air bags themselves do not make the ride better. You must first put on a much softer spring pack to get the soft ride. But by doing so the truck will lose load carrying capability. So in order to regain load capacity the air bags are suggested. But now the long travel airbags ride much better than the firestone double bellow bags. Maybe there was some misunderstanding with this part. I hope this clears it up for you. Oo.

 

[2Bear]

Thanks Baja,



I'll find out next week when I explore this issue more fully with Jesse at Carli.



Maybe I'll have to rework the springs with a Lorenz setup.





Ray



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[Baja_Mike]

Thanks Baja,



I'll find out next week when I explore this issue more fully with Jesse at Carli.



Maybe I'll have to rework the springs with a Lorenz setup.





Ray



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You will still need to replace your existing pack to achieve a nice soft ride. That and I don't think Lorenz has any experience with chassis cabs. The springs are a different length on the chassis cabs. Carli already has a setup for it. Also the rear shocks are a different length on the chassis cabs. Carli has a setup for that as well. We do quite a bit of R&D at our shop. You are more than welcome to come check out our shop anytime you like. You should ask Lorenz if you can tour his shop... ... . Oo.

 

[2Bear]

Baja,



Thanks for the info and thanks for the offer on the tour - I see you are also in Orange County - must be close to Carli ?



Sounds like I just need to work with Carli a bit more and they'll solve my problems.

Jesse was very helpful on the phone.





Ray

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