4bt OUTTA a Liftall forklift

[Gifford]

Would a 4bt from a wrecked LiftAll rough terrain forklift make a good powerplant for a jeep CJ or Scout repower?



(Liftall is a 4WD, 4W steering forklift)

 

[Steve Graham]

This converson would only work if you never plan on driveing it on the street. The forklift engine is "industral" not EPA certified.



Steve

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I disagree... .



The only difference from our 6BT and those found in other industrial applications is the fueling section. This is where you may find a rotary or inline pump... . depends on the HP/rpm demands of the device.



Most of the time when you do a conversion... . inspectors are so flabbergasted by what you did to even check to see if it's an automotive engine... . and even more important is the fact that it's sometimes really hard to tell if it's industrial or not.



What the EPA don't know won't hurt 'em.



I think CA would frown upon this... . but this would be cake to get away with in almost any other state.



Keep us updated...



Matt

 

[sgriffing]

Beige is beautiful

The color of the paint is the biggest difference.

The PDO (Previous d@#n owner) put a few industrial parts under the hood during the last engine change/overhaul. It's what was in the parts bin at the local cummins shop.



How many of you "Bombers" think you are EPA legal?



Tune it right and it might be a clean little engine.

Then again... ... ... ... . "SMOKE GOOD!!"



It's no more crazy than putting a 35 year old van body on a school bus chassis. :--)

 

[rbalcom]

Go for it, i'm doing a scout conversion so i could use some company!

If the engine has a bosch vpump your 98% on your way to being epa legal, get your self the "master repair manuual for injection pumps and injectors" or give me your make and pump number and i'll check it against the list...

what are they asking for that engine? I spoke to a wrecker that wanted 4K for a similar 4bt in a skip loader? with a bad fuel solonoid. .

hope you are able to pull off the deal... ray

 

[EricBu12]

I was at a rock crawler rally yesterday and this jeep has a 4bt in it. just basicly idled over all the rocks

 

[w-cummins]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset

I disagree... .



The only difference from our 6BT and those found in other industrial applications is the fueling section. This is where you may find a rotary or inline pump... . depends on the HP/rpm demands of the device.





Matt

Well that could be true or not, You really need to look at the CPL for the motor and then look and see if you can find a compatible CPL from a automotive engine. Some have just pump and injector changes, others have TONS of stuff that is changed I did a conversion of a CPL 599 to a CPL 600 on a 6BTA years ago. On that one the only difference was the timing, and the setup of the Pump ( tighter governor and torque rise on the industrial motor)





William Cummins

 

[HoleshotHolset]

The point that I was trying to make is that it'll work, and that the EPA won't have a clue.



As long as it doesn't smoke when the EPA is looking at it... . you're fine.



Yeah, there may be some differences, but nothing that will be a huge pain in the butt. In the end it will all be worth it.



Matt

 

[rbalcom]

Well lets hear about the purchase. Did it go thru?

Was this engine on the end of a large hydraulic pump? This application may be the most challenging for a conversion with an SAE pattern adapter. The suspense is tearing us apart!

 

[HoleshotHolset]

rbalcom: "This application may be the most challenging for a conversion with an SAE pattern adapter. "



I'm not sure what you mean by this... .



With only a few exceptions... . a 4BT is a 4BT and a 6BT is a 6BT... . catch my drift?



They will all have a certain SAE standardized bellhousing specification... . but whatever every other 4BT uses is probably what any 4BT uses... no matter what it was originally in. If he gets the right SAE bellhousing adapter... it's no different than adapting any other engine.



One thing to watch out for are marine engines. I've heard a few folktales about people buying used marine engines and putting them in cars. Since a lot of boats have twin engines... . one of 'em is usually a counter-rotator..... this is bad news for automotive use.



Marine engines are also made to accelerate to a specific RPM and stay there all day... so they might be lacking good OTR acceleration characteristics. A good example of this is the use of a marine cam in an OTR truck... . it doesn't work so well.



Hope it all works out... .



Matt

 

[rbalcom]

I can only speak from my own experience: On my 4bta, i had to change out the original starter, engine adapter plate and flywheel. It came with the chevy pattern bolted to a t-400. There were no free lunches in the transmission department except for the getrag 5speed, so that is what i'm using in two of my conversions.

 

[tk064]

Someone told me the Automotive 4BT had counter-balance shafts that the Industrial did not have? Is this right or wrong.



This was to allegedly cut the vibration in half.



Thanks,



tim

 

[rbalcom]

TIPS TO LOOK FOR:

Based on a table in my "B" series shop manual, page 0-72, the table lists certified/noncertified engines... if the injection pump is a Lucas or Stanadyne it is "not CARB or EPA certified for over the road operation... .



Industrial nomenclature on engine data plate:

4 bta 3. 9

automotive: B 3. 9 - 120



Vibration dampner is another clue: these are approx. rpm values

Silicon fluid dampner is rated @ 3200 rpm

rubber dampner up to 2700 rpm



maybe someone out there has the cpl numbers for the counter balanced engines... . both the 4s and 6s have that feature. .

ray

 

[sgriffing]

Great info

That could come in handy.

Especially if he is going to "Turn it up"

Thanks Ray!!

 

[w-cummins]

Originally posted by rbalcom

maybe someone out there has the cpl numbers for the counter balanced engines... . both the 4s and 6s have that feature. .

ray

Are you sure that the 6's also had the balancers I don't see why they would need them... .

 

[Brian R]

Based on some of the above posts, is it safe to say that there are 4bt's that are certified for use in light duty (one ton on down) trucks? I thought they were only certified for use in heavy duty trucks. In California, at least, it is illegal to use a heavy duty engine in a light duty vehicle.

 

[rbalcom]

A good source of information is to check out the available factory manuals available from cummins. (not very expensive if i may add) One of my injector and pump books provides a list of engine cpls with the application and certifications by epa/carb.



On another note who is saying a 3/4 or 1 ton vehicle is a light duty vehicle. By the time you take a 1,000 lb engine, upgrade to a 200 lb transmission/200 lb transfer case and 300-500 lbs axles and 100lb spring paks, we are talking, 6-7,000lbs as an example for my 56 s120 3/4 ton INT travel-all.

we are not talking cj-5's, are we????

ray

 

[Gifford]

B 3.9 info

THis engine (b 3. 9C) has a bosch RSV475 pump

the CPL is: 2302 Serial plate says its 110 horsepower, Another plate on the front of the injector pump says something like 903 and a couple long serial numbers dunno what that stuff means.

There is another plate that says this engine meets California standards for off highway diesels (or something to that effect)



The fan seemed to be a direct drive (no viscous clutch like the dodge,) and the output shaft is coupled directly to a driveshaft (no bellhousing).

It has only 130 hours on the clock... .

 

[Brian R]

I believe the difference between HD and LD is that Heavy Duty is above 1 ton and Light Duty is 1 ton or lower. I think it is based on the class of vehicle as manufactured and registered.