4BTA & NV3500HD/NV233 & Dakota

[driverswanted]

I have several questions on my 4BTA / Dakota 4x4 conversion. Hoping someone here can help me.



1. Dodge Dakota will most likey come with the NV244 (Full time) or NV233(part time) transfer case. They are used with the gas 5. 9L engine, (345 ft-lbs. ) will this drive train hold up to the Cummins' torque?



2. I want to use the NV4500 but I don't like the road speed vs. economy matchup with the 8. 25" 3. 55 or 3. 92; that will most likely come with the Dakota. The NV3500 in the HD version is rated for 330 ft-lbs and has better ratio spacings for the no load road speeds I'm looking for. Is this transmission durable enough for the 4BT?



3. Does anyone know if the electric signals these transfer cases and NV3500 need can be created without the Gasser engine?



4. Does the wastegated 14 cm sq. and 16 cm sq. Holset bolt up to the 4BTA?



5. How are the 4BTA water aftercoolers plumped for the water? How does this circulate for cooling?



6. Will there be signals I can simulate that the NV244 and NV 233 need to work properly?





FYI... Close to buying the 4BTA for this conversion.

Would like to strike up conversation with Lou Chiu. Anyone know if he can be reached for advice?

 

[jlast]

wow

I have looked through alot of stuff for doing a repower myself.



I have come to the conclusion that it depends on what the primary use and performance you will end up with.



You mention 4x4 and Lou Chiu, he has tons of good stuff on his site, but all of his stuff is built for strength and to deal with a good amount of power. I would say to follow his examples plus others that have done similar swaps.



If I were to build your project I would scrap all drivetrain, axles, etc... and go to one ton stuff, dana 60s, np 205, nv4500.



nv4500hd is the diesel version and can bolt up to the 4bt using dodge diesel bellhousing. nv4500 can bolt up to the 1st gen np 205 with minor mods. THIS IS WHAT I HAVE READ AND WAS TOLD. (disclaimer, I have not done anything with this stuff yet) I am also not fimilar with dakota drivetrain, or the nv3500. This sounded like the easiest way to go for me, I like power and dont want to break things.



I believe 4bt stuff interchanges with 6bt stuff turbos, etc. . and read that water aftercoolers are not as good as air intercoolers.



Jlast

 

[driverswanted]

Dakota swap

jlast,



My primary use may be more economy and tow my 6-7K lbs. boat. What are you looking to do with this setup?

I would like to push that 28-32 mpg envelope I hear about to maybe 32-35 mpg. I am concerned with a comment that Lou has out there regarding marginal braking in a Scout do to the 4BT weight.



That alone may make me size up the axles/ brakes unless the Dakota with the 5. 9L engine has been sized up already for what should be a simular weight.

Sounds like Dana 60's would require alot of work. What would that entail exactly?

You mentioned the aftercooler not being as efficient. Are there intercoolers that would fit the Dakota? My Ram intercooler looks too big to fit in there.

Anyone seen prices/ availability on diesel RAM bellhousings?

 

[driverswanted]

Lou Chiu

jlast,



I've been trying to find this Lou Chiu site. Everthing I click on that looks like it should lead me to work he's done comes up blank. Like the site is not there. Does he have a site that is presently working?

 

[BFaoro]

ttt

 

[T. Baker]

You could up grade everything to 1 ton specs but I think that might be a bit overkill for a 4BT. I have a bombed 6BT in my scout and the Dana 44s are holding up as well as the Dana 300 trans case and GM SM420 4 speed and I have somwhere around 400 hp. My brakes work great by the way. I'm not saying I woun't break somthing somtime, I already ripped the hub out of one clutch, but that is not too bad considering how much power I have. Do what will make you feel comfortable and you can afford. You can view my project by pasting the link in my signature into your web browser.

 

[driverswanted]

T.Baker

Went and saw your pics. Nice job... . where did you buy your air filter?

Is that a shortened exhaust system coming out the side?



Just picked up my 4bt today from Adelman's in Canton, Ohio. He matched everyone elses price; and I did not have to travel but 50 miles to get my engine. He even has a new 4bt for $3,800 with the P7100 injection I believe. It was probably set for off-road.



Ran it in their shop and got 70 psi oil pressure. Teh other engines we ran got closer to 60 psi. started up immediately too. They have two other 4bt engines sitting on the shelf.

 

[T. Baker]

Thanks.

Thats a 3. 5" strait pipe running down the rocker pannel. I got the air filter on ebay. It is a big Cummins power RV paper filter. Next air filter will be a AFE mega cannon wich I will make a shrowd around so it gets cold air from in front of the radiator like the current one does.

One option on the drive line would be GM style parts. You can buy the GM adaptors with flywheel and starter for $400.

On ebay right now there is a Cummins bellhousing for a Geartag transmission.

Sounds like you got a good engine. Keep us up date on your project.

 

[jlast]

Man been way to busy, thanks for the TTT.



I was also having trouble with Lou's site, I will try again later.



D60's would be alot of work, depends what you like but I imagine you would want to cut them down to fit close to the same as the dakota axles. The did make a d60 rear with a 65" wms to wms, but it might still be to wide?



I was wondering if you got a rotory pump on yours? $$$$? if they had the motors, adelmans probably has the stuff for the adapters to Gm trans, however with economy wanted you be better off with the nv4500 but it will cost more. I have been looking but no p pump motors to be found, and $3800 is to damn much when 6bts can be had for lots less.



I might have to go with the 6bt but weight will be an issue.



T. Baker



From what I hear D 300 cases are pretty weak, and d 44 arent that stronger either but it depends on how you use them. Do you do any towing? SM420 will out last everthing but the motor, just watch fuild and I believe it is second gear bushing or bearing that goes out, but parts can be hard to find. always pull them if you find them in a junk yard, getting hard to find plus you can always use a parts trans, or sell them.



jlast

 

[T. Baker]

I've been pretty inpressed with the strength of the 44 and the D300 so far. I know people break them rock crawling but they also break Dana 60s as well. Some people break everything. I don't tow that much. The limit with towing is usually controling and stoping the load not the drive line so much. I have bigger trucks for towing heavy. I just like having power for driving around. It's fun and I expect the engine will last a long time pushing my scout around. The sincros are good in the transmission and since I double clutch they shouldn't ever wear out on me.

 

[JPETE]

4BTA THE AFTER COOLER IS PLUMBED TO THE ENG WATER SYSTEM INTERNALLY IT STICKS UP APPROX 6 INCHES ,I DONT THINK YOU CAN MOUNT THE ENGINE LOW ENOUGH IN A DAKOTA TO GET THE HOOD TO CLOSE. PROBABLY SHOULD THINK ABOUT AN AIR INTERCOOLER, I AM SURE IT WOULD WORK OUT BETTER FOR A DAKOTA THAT ENGINE IS TALL. I HAVE MINE SET AS LOW AS I COULD IN MY D150 . EXHAUST SYSTEM IS ALSO A CLEARANCE PROBLEM HAD TO RUN OUTSIDE OF FRAME RAIL

 

[driverswanted]

jpete,



Yes, I measured my 4bt and have Dakota measurements. I decided a couple weeks ago to buy the 4bt instead of the 4bta because of the engine clearance issue and because I wanted to go with the aftercooler instead for more h. p.

I'm also changing the H1C turbo to a HY35W. Any clue on the gains with these changes t o my cpl 858?

 

[JPETE]

turbo

I dont know about the turbo change ,as I have not tried anything different,but how about a waste gate controler . I might check into a intercooler though, some of the box vans have these , I THINK they are 120 HP . I will let you all know what I learn . thanks for the help and intrest. James Peters -------------- JMP308@HOTMAIL. COM

 

[driverswanted]

jpete,



Just received two intercoolers I bought off E-bay. Both have 2. 5" inlet/outlet. They are from a volvo and Saab 9000 respectively (~17" x 19" cooling area each). Each one has 325 sq. in. area. One 4BTA intercooler is alone 325sq in. The neat thing is they are made by the same company and one can sit in front of the other sandwitched and the inlets and outlets nicely nest together. I can make a "Y" into the inlets and a "Y" out of the outlets back to my 2. 5" stainless steel intake tubing. The air should slow down nicely as it moves through the paralleled intercoolers.

 

[JPETE]

INTERCOOLER

I AM CHECKING ON SOME DIFFERENT TYPE COOLERS , EVER HEARD OF A BARREL TYPE? VERY COMPACT LOOKING . I WILL LET YOU KNOW WHEN I GET THE INFO

 

[driverswanted]

Jpete,



Yes I saw one on E-bay. Looked coolant cooled. About the same area as the Cummins 4bta cooler maybe slightly larger.



Heading down by you this weekend. Well sort of. Abilene Tx. Going to pick up a '85 D-150 4x4 for my project vehicle. (attached photo). New blue paint job and 6 coats of Durabak in bed and footwells. Just could not find a newer Dakota in my price range. But the D-150 appears to be the same weight as this D-150 shortbed and that's the only reason I was going with the Dakota (for weight reduction over a 1/2 ton). Now that I eliminated that justification I've gained all kinds of advantages; going with the D-150. But you already know that.

Do you have any project photos of yours?

Would be interested in how you did engine mounts, exhaust downpipe, size exhaust?,vacuum for brakes and ventilation, A/C mountings.

 

[JPETE]

LOOKS LIKE A NICE TRUCK ,EVERYTHING I USED CAME FROM A FRITO BOX VAN THE ENGINE MOUNT VIBRATION DAMPNERS ARE LORD FLUIDLASTIC ,I HAD TO CUT THE FRAME MOUNTS OFF AND START FROM SCRATCH ,ENGINE IN /OUT FOR FIT UP 10 TIMES ALSO LOTS OF MEASUREING & FITUP FOR TRANS CROSSMEMBER. I USED A FORD DIESEL VACUUM PUMP, DIAPHRAM TYPE MADE A BRACKET BELT DRIVE( SAME TYPE VAC PUMPS USED ON FIRST GEN DODGE EXCEPT BELT DRIVE)I AM NO COMPUTER WHIZ, DONT KNOW HOW TO POST PICTURES ,I WILL HAVE TO GET SOMEONE TO SHOW ME HOW ,ALSO I CANT TYPE ,HUNT AND PECK ,TAKES ME A LONG TIME TO POST ANYTHING. :--) :--) :--)

 

[JPETE]

3.3LTR CUMMINS

LOOK ON EBAY A NEW 3. 3 CUMMINS 85 HP 2800$. I THOUGHT I HEARD OF EVERYTHING BUT NOT A 3. 3 HOW ABOUT THAT IN A TOYOTA DOOLEY WAY COOL Oo.

 

[driverswanted]

Yes I have the ISB version of the brochure on the 3. 3bt. Interseting possiblities for a light vehicle like a Jeep cj. Wouldn't tow anything heavy with it though. Could become a rock crawler maybe.



Just got back from west Texas. Towbar towed '85 all the way back from there to northern Ohio. 2,800 miles round trip. worth it though. Got a gem of a truck. No rust anywhere. Need to find out what this "Explorer" version of the "Ram 150 custom" has as standard equipment. Would like input from anyone out there.



I guess that there were both types of vacuum pumps offered on first gen. because mine has the inline with hydraulic pump version.



Looked at Fluidlastic web site. Do you have the model number of the mount you used? Supplier? Like to know the locations you used them (front engine mount location or rear mount location) and how satisfied you are at the amount of absorbtion you experienced. I'm trying to find a supplier of the "Sorbothane" engine mounts. I think the lifecycle rating on Sorbothane would be superior to a fluid filled system.



Sorry about asking so many questions. Maybe you'll become a speed typist before you are done answering these.

 

[JPETE]

I WILL FIND THE PART NUMBERS FOR YOU FOR THE MOUNT CUSHIONS ALSO WHERE TO GET .