5-40 rotella T synthetic Vs. delo 400 15-40

[pwr2tow]

Is the pour point the point at which oil stops flowing.

If this is correct then according to the spec sheets Delo 400 15-40 would be better then rotella T 5-40 synthetic in cold weather starting????



pour point TBN

rotella T 5-40 -30c 10

delo 400 15-40 -39c 11. 3





I always thought heavier weight oil flowed less??



Both oils are hydrocracked, which means they can classify them as synthetics even though the base stock is mineral verses man made.



group III oils hydrocracked mineral base.

group IV oils are man made base.



Someone with more knowledge please step in and clarify.



Ron

 

[Don M]

Hydrocracking is the process by which hydroisomerized base stock oil is produced.

Hydrocracking is also used to make distillates from oil.

Distillates are used to make diesel for our rams and jet fuel.



This is the simple idea of hydrocracking.



Pour points are not always in line with weights. Both oils have differing base stocks and additive packages. This would explain differing properties.



I would like to see the data sheet for the Rotela synthetic.



Don~

 

[pwr2tow]

I don't have a scanner so hope this helps.



Rotella T 5-40 synthetic

viscosity @ 30 C cP 6400

@40 C cSt 88. 8

@100 C cSt 14. 6

Viscosity Index176

flash point 246 C

low temp cranking viscosity,cP @ -30C 6400

low temp pumping viscosity,cP @ -35C 39,000

pour point, -30 C

TBN-E 10

sulfated ash, wt% 1. 3





Delo 400 15-40

viscosity @ cSt at 40C 116

viscosity @ cSt at 100C 15. 6

flash point 446F

pour point, -39C, -38F

TBN, 11. 3

sulfated ash, wt% 1. 34





Sorry I don't have the low temp cranking viscosity or the low temp pumping viscosity. I suppose those are the numbers you really need? If they are I will do some more digging and see if I can find them.



Ron

 

[illflem]

Ron, might try asking your question on the http://www.noria.com/ message board for excellent answers.

 

[Posm]

I just happen to have the Chevron Salesfax digest here . The pour point for the Delo 400 15- 40 is listed at -29 C. You seem to want to compare the Delo to the Rosmella, but I just installed the Delo 400 Synthetic in 5- 40 at least for the winter. It has a pour point of -60C. I have not decided on change intraval, however I know that I will keep my filter change on the same as the old change intraval and put that 12th quart to good use.

 

[pwr2tow]

Posm, I don't mean this as a flame but your numbers are wrong.

The -60 you mentioned is for their delo 0-30 synthetic.

The delo 400 15-40 pour point is -39C or -38F.

Delo 400 5-40 pour point is -43C or -45F

I got all the numbers off there web site chevron.com and the rotella T numbers I had faxed to me from shell oil.



The reason I was compareing the two was because of price and quality. Chevron delo 400 5-40 is listed as synthetic stock base and rotella t is listed as hydrocracked mineral base. Chevron Delo 400 15-40 is also hydrocracked mineral base.



Chevron delo 400 5-40 is $21. 00/gallon

chevron delo 400 15-40 is $6. ??/gallon

Rotella T 5-40 is $18. 88/gallon



The comparison I was trying to make to myself was why buy oil for $18. 88 per gallon if I can Buy oil for $6. ?? per gallon and it will flow better than the $18. 88 stuff.



I will probably use Delo 400 5-40 and change oil every 8,000, have not decided yet.



Ron

 

[pwr2tow]

Bill, good advise, I will have to do that when my head clears up. All this thinking and typeing is hard on a poor country boy like me.



Ron

 

[illflem]

Bought two 6 ga cases last week of Delo 5w-40 @ $9. 70 gallon. The Chevron jobber I bought it from said they run it in their diesel trucks in the winter with a 20k change interval with filter change every 5k. I plan to do the same with an oil test every 5k. Going to see if I can get 800 hrs between changes on tractors. Lucked out and the Ag Research Station where I work has just acquired oil analysis equipment for their research with canola lube oil, free oil tests when ever I want. Running two tractors on canola now, so far so good. The researchers are also shooting for 800 hrs or 20k with the canola. The Delo 5-40 syn is also figuring into their research for comparison as is 15-40 non-synthetic. Makes my job a little more complex with this research, I have to measure any oil added to an engine in milliliters and record it. They are doing things that would make you guys cringe, like running brand new Kubota engines with different types of lube, then running them with no lube so they can do autopsies. Head researcher recommended Delo syn over all others, more for the buck. This guy knows more about lubrication than I ever want to.

 

[Cooker]

I'll add my $. 02 here.



Posm,

The Delo 0w30 has a pour point of -60c (-76f), the Delo 5w40 has a pour point of -43c (-45f) check it out here: http://library.cbest.chevron.com/lu...d19c4ebb6aed04238825625a006db4bd?OpenDocument



I agree with Don M's comment, "Both oils have differing base stocks and additive packages. This would explain differing properties. "



ronsram1999,

The Delo 15w40 is not classified as a synthetic. You are correct in the fact that is is hydrocracked, but it is still a Group II oil, and that does not qualify for synthetic desigination. I am unfamiliar with the Rotella 5w40, but I would assume that it is a severely hydrocracked oil. Severely hydrocraked oils are Group III oils and do qualify for synthetic desigination. (for a better explination of Group III oil's check out Lee Weber's post here: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27328 )



The Delo 5w40 is a Group III oil and is classified as a synthetic with pour points and a link to it's properties mentioned above.



The TBN of the Delo is higher and this is important as well. Because of this the Delo should hold up better should be able to run for a longer oil change interval than the Rotella.



All in all, the Delo is an excellent oil.



To answer your question, the Delo would be a better oil in the winter than the Rotella. The 15w of the more fluid Delo would provide better protection upon winter startup.



-Ryan

 

[Cooker]

Wow a few post snuck in there while I was typing. Sorry for some repeated info in my previous post.



Delo 5w40 in my area is $14. 49/gallon.

 

[pwr2tow]

Bill,

That price per gallon is outstanding, wish I could get some for that price, I have to pay over twice as much. Keep up the research it will benefit us all. thanks for your reply.



Cooker,

Thanks for your reply. I thought I was on the right track but it doesn't hurt to check with someone who would know more than me (which is in most cases). 14 bucks a gallon is still a good price. I'am considering the delo 400 5-40 even at $21. 00 a gallon but in all honesty I will probably stick with delo 400 15-40 due to cost.



Thanks,

Ron

 

[Cooker]

Ron,



If you are considering $21. 00/gallon I would seriously consider the Delvac 1 5w40. It is a true synthetic, I'm not sure if it's Group IV or V, and flows down to -65. Around here the Delvac 1 is ~$20 a gallon.

 

[Jar Head]

Cooker,



I've been following these threads and you keep bringing up a couple things that are driving me nuts:



1. Synthetic vs. REAL synthetic. My god man give it a break! I don't care if Chevron uses a walnut cracker to hydrocrack donkey pee to use as a base stock. Delo 400 5w40 synthetic is an outstanding oil and when used during extended drain intervals will perform just fine and offers a cost savings at the same time. I paid $13. 00/gal from my local CFN. Delo 400 15w40 mineral oil from the same place costs $7. 00/gal. So now I buy the 5w40 and change it out every 30,000 with no oil analysis. Truck runs great and haven't changed the oil in months!



2. Pour points. Who gives a rat's behind? I tell you what, if it's -20, -30, -40, -50, -60 or what not my Cummins WILL NOT START! Why? 'Cause there aint no way in hell I'm going anywhere in that kind of weather. I'll be staying home to keep my pipes from bursting! Let the truck rot! You can not compare pour points to viscocity.



3. If I lived in ND (as does the original poster to this thread), I would not run 15w40 at anytime during the year - 5w40 is perfect anytime, anywhere.



4. Engine protection. O. K. , you keep changing your oil every 2,000 miles with Amsoil's HDD 15w40 and I'll keep changing mine how I'm doing it, and you're right, you're engine will look new inside at 500,000 miles and above. I might need a re-ring and bearing change at 400,000. Again, who cares?. The truck will be LONG gone by that time and like 99. 999% of the members out here (yourself included) will be driving the new 2208 Ram with the 8000 horse Cummins V-18 with nine injections pumps 20 turbos and 14 speed transmissons with 50 miles to the gallon and runs on canola oil. Let the next guy who buys your trade-in worry about oils. That's who you're changing the oil for anyway. You will NEVER see the benifits of running the big dollar oils unless you plan on NEVER getting rid of your truck, and we all know that ain't going to happen.



Anyone who uses Delo 400 15w40 year-round and changes the oil and filter every 3-7 thousand miles will have an engine that will NEVER have an oil related problem. These big dollar esoteric oils are a waste of money.



Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[pwr2tow]

Cooker, Thanks for the info but around here they want anywhere from $28. 00 to $42. 00 per gallon.



I think I will be staying with delo 400 15-40 unless i can find something more cost effective. I am from the old school of changeing oil every 3,000 miles but I am trying to break my habit and go with 7,000 to 8,000 miles, changes are hard to do.



Ron

 

[Cooker]

Jar Head,



Please, take it easy.



For one, I am not an Amsoil "freak" like you seem to assume. There is not one Amsoil product in my truck at the moment, but I will be changing to the Universla Amsoil ATF soon.



Currently I am running the Delo 15w40, because for the money I don't believe there is a better oil out there. I agree with your statement, "Anyone who uses Delo 400 15w40 year-round and changes the oil and filter every 3-7 thousand miles will have an engine that will NEVER have an oil related problem. " I am currently changing at 3500 mile oil change intevals, which is way too soon. My oil analysis come back excellent.



You may choose not to leave the house in temps of -20, but there are some members who encounter this weather occasionally, and have to leave the house or work. Here in MI the only time I have been in this cold of weather was in the upper peninsula on snowmobiling trips. At the time I didn't have my Cummins, but I did have to start the truck in -20 below temps.



You are right in saying, "You can not compare pour points to viscocity. " but the question asked was comparing a 5w oil with a pour point of -22f and a 15w oil with a pour point of -38f. At -22 below the 5w "synthetic" Rotella will be thicker than honey and will not flow without some heated persuasion. The Delo 15w40 will definitly be very thick, but it will still flow.



You obvioulsy don't feel pour points are a revelant number when determining the quality of an oil, and it may not be an issue where you live now, but to some of us it is defilitely an important number. For instance, if someone in the a extreamly cold climate (Northern Minnesota, Northern Michigan, Canada, Alaska, ect... ) chooses to run Rotella T 15w40 in the winter, he would be making a bad choice. The pour point of the oil is -13f. This stuff will not work for them. Here in southeren MI I can remember having to start the truck one morning after work in -3f, and unfortualtely it was not plugged in. I am very happy I had the Delo 15w40 in there instead of the Rotella T. FTR - I think the Rotella T is a good oil also, but just not an optimal choice in colder climates.



You brought up the issue of, "Synthetic vs. REAL synthetic" Again this may not be very important to you or some others on this board, but it is an important point to some. The original poster of this thread was aware of this, and I assume it is an important issue to him as he included it in his post.



Group III oils are only classied as synthetic because the courts ruled this so. Do you agree with every single ruling the courts have made?



To some consumers I'm sure the idea of whether the oil is a true syn or not is important. Why pay $21. 00/gallon for a Group III synthetic oil, when other full synthetic oils can be bought for less than that.



Are the true synthetic oils that much better. That has been debated countless times here on the TDR so I will leave that topic alone.



As I said I don't run Amsoil or any other Group IV/V full synthetic oil. I, like you, feel that at 400,000 miles I will either, not have the truck, or the rest of the truck will be junk from the salty winters here in MI. I personally cannot justify the $20/gallon cost of the full synthetics, and I don't care about exended drains so, for me, that is not a selling point of the Amsoil's, ect...



I have decided to try the Delo 5w40, at least for winter, and I may continue to use it year round. I wanted a oil that would provide better protection upon cold startup when I am unable to plug the truck in. I think the Delo 5w40 will do this, at a lower cost than the Group IV/V synthetics. And should I choose to switch back to the Delo 15w40 during the warmer months, there will be a reduced chance of an additive clash from switching brands of oil.



Please keep in mind that you, or I, do not represent all consumers as a whole. What is important to us, is/may not be important to others. In my post I try (and maybe sometimes I don't do a very good job) to state the factual information, as I think they are important to know to make an informed decision, and then express my opinions. That why the TDR is so great. A question can be answered using the facts, and then we all can chime in our experiences and personal opinions. We are all left to ultimately decide for ourselves, as it is our truck and our money.



I would also like to wish you and your family a happy and safe Thanksgiving.



Have a nice day,

Ryan

 

[JohnE]

the wind is cold and the forecast is for snow

Ron;



I think you already know how poor Delo 400 or any 15W-40 oil flows once temps hit 32° F and then dang nears solidifies at 0° F. I have not experienced any 5W-XX weight oil (conventional or synthetic) with less cold flow properties than a 15W-XX or even a 10W-XX.



My opinion for a compromise between cold weather performance and price, is to go with a 10W-30 from Cenex, Fleet Supply, Home of Economy, TSC, John Deere, or the other tractor store. I used Cenex 10W-30 last winter and it gave oil pressure in less than 10 seconds whereas the Delo 400 15W-40 did not.



This year I'm trying some more options:

I ordered an oil immersion heater to use at home or near any plugin. Not sure if it is necessary this year as I changed to AMSOIL 5W-30, too. My truck has to sit outside at work all day without a plugin. I also installed an ESPAR.



This tropical weather is almost gone so I want to face winter with a smile.



-John

 

[pwr2tow]

Since I started this thread I thought I would share something with everyone.



I just couldn't leave it alone that 15-40 would flow better that 4-40 oil, even if the data sheets show differently, so I went out and bought a quart of both and the following is the results of my little experiment.



I put both quarts in the freezer and brought the temp down to 11. 8 degrees farinheight did my experiment, then brought the temp down to zero did my experiment, then brought the temp down to -8 degrees farinheight. I used insulated gloves so I wouldn't throw the experiment off and done the experiment the same way and in cold storage, all to try and keep the variables the same. I used a funnel with a approximate 3/8 inch hole to pour the oil through, I filled the funnel and then let it go and timed how long it would take for the oil to pass through the funnel spout. The following is the results.



Delo 400 15-40

11. 8 degrees above zero = 1min. and 43sec.

zero degrees = 2min. and 44sec.

8 degrees below zero = 3min and 5sec.





Rotella T 5-40

11. 8 degrees above zero = 56sec.

zero degrees = 1min. and 25sec.

8 degrees below zero = 1min and 32sec.





Conclusion is that, Rotella T 5-40 flows better at 8 degrees below zero than Delo 400 15-40 does at 11. 8 degrees above zero.



Know my question is, how can Rottela 5-40 flow better with a higher pour point than Delo 15-40 with a lower pour point.



I know I go over board on alot of things but when I get started on simething it bothers me until I know all I can.



Just thought I would pass on the info.



Ron

 

[illflem]

Ron, nice to see a man who also likes to experiment. I think what you would find is that flow properties of the different oils change at a different rates as they cool. Another way to look at it is pour point is temp when the oil "freezes" which will depend on it's ingredients, the flow rate may not effected by freeze point. Water is a good example, it will freeze solid at 32°, add a little antifreeze and the temp will be lower but it may also go though a slush phase before freezing solid and won't flow as freely. Hope this makes sense.

 

[pwr2tow]

Thanks Bill, It makes complete sense to me now. Eight below zero farinheight was the coldest I could get the walkin freezer down to, when winter cold weather moves in I will have to do a little more. I still can not figure out why oil costs so much more here in ND, If my information is correct we even have a mobil oil refinery here in Mandan ND.



Ron

 

[illflem]

Ron, oil prices are a tough one that I've never figured out. The price of fuel can go up and down a dollar but the price of a quart of oil remains the same. Not sure where oil is made but am pretty sure it isn't ND, shipping shouldn't factor in to the price as much as the variability in price. I've noticed many things are cheaper in MT than the adjacent states, it could be because MT is friendly to business without added on taxes. We also have no sales tax.