Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 5 or 6 speed

[Bandit1]

a buddy is looking at selling his chevy and converting to a dodge cummins. all he tows is a 19 ft bass boat, so my question is which transmission is better. obviously the 6 speed is better for heavy pulling but is the 5 speed a bad transmission by any means? thanks

 

[elamb]

I personally like the 6 speed, but there is nothing wrong that I know of with a 5 speed. My father-in-law has a 95 with a 5 speed and hasn't had any problems with it.



Eric

 

[klenger]

I'd get the 6 speed. Wait a minute, I did get the 6 speed. Actually, I had a 5 speed and traded it after 6 months to get the 6 speed. Even empty or with light loads it's a nicer transmission.

 

[Briar Hopper]

The 5 speed NV4500 is plenty tough, but it has a little weakness... the 5th gear nut likes to come loose. Usually all that happens is you'll lose 5th, and still have the other 4 gears, with no damage other than needing to replace the nut with a kit available from your Dodge dealer, Enterprise Engine, us, or Blumenthal's (about $30). Sometimes there is other damage, nothing real expensive.

Fully splined mainshafts are available from us and other sources, when installed in the transmission, it greatly reduces the likelihood of the nut coming loose again.

This is the most common repair we've had in our shop, other than lift pump replacements on trucks out of warranty.

I like my five speed, even with the 5th gear failure I had. I'd rather replace/rebuild it a couple times, than put up with the shift pattern of the 6 speed, but that's simply my personal preference. If I was buying another truck, and it had a 6 speed, I wouldn't shy away from it, I'd just get used to the shift pattern. The 6 speeds are stout, if your friend wants a truck he needs to fool with as little as possible, he needs a 6.

But my next truck will have an automatic , a DTT is just TOO much fun to pass up !

 

[DDT]

I have a 5 speed in mine. I sure wish I had the 6 sp, don't get me wrong, the 5sp does a great job. I do pull a Lot of heavy loads so there is quite a RPM difference between them.

 

[pskaar]

6 speed

I have a six speed and love it. the only thing is that the reverse is not timed and if you go from neutral to reverse it will grind. if you go from neutral to 1 or 2 and then into reverse n problems. I personally like the shift pattern better than the ford 6 speed.

preston Skaar

 

[rfcom]

For towing, I think the 6 speed would be better. The 5 speed has a wide gap between 3rd and 4th that is not a problem running empty, but I can see where it might be when towing up a grade.



Jim

 

[RustyJC]

We tow heavy and wanted the HO, so there was no option for us in 2002 - it's gonna be a 6-speed! The more miles I get on it, the better it shifts and the more I like it. The tight (relatively speaking) gear spacing is just right for towing. My only complaint is, with the 4. 10 rear axle, I wish it were a 7 speed!



Rusty

 

[Oil Burner]

go for the six! I've driven both and like the 6 speed better, but to each his own. Tell him to test drive both.

-Jason

 

[krs]

"the only thing is that the reverse is not timed and if you go from neutral to reverse it will grind"





??? What does "not timed" mean? My 6sp does no such thing - in fact dropping to nuetral before shifting into reverse will generally prevent grinding.

 

[Texas Diesel]

We have one of each, when running empty I prefer the 5 speed but when the 5th wheel is hooked up then the 6 speed really shines.



Might want to ask around and see how the grinding problem is going with other new trucks, Im on my 3rd replacement 5600, the other two started grinding real bad at around 30k, they were all replaced with new gearboxes and the current one has 25k and seems to be doing just fine.

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Tejas Deezul

We have one of each, when running empty I prefer the 5 speed but when the 5th wheel is hooked up then the 6 speed really shines.



Might want to ask around and see how the grinding problem is going with other new trucks, Im on my 3rd replacement 5600, the other two started grinding real bad at around 30k, they were all replaced with new gearboxes and the current one has 25k and seems to be doing just fine.

Tejas how are you breaking these 6 speeds???

 

[Texas Diesel]

Dont know been driving manuals all my life, in fact, that is all any of us own. We put 195,000 miles on our last NV-3500 and it still shifted like new, even had the OEM clutch.



I was told there were a bunch of bad counter-shafts (?) made by NV. Sure hope the current one holds up, so far, so good.



All the ones that went bad would grind 3rd real bad

 

[Pit Bull]

Originally posted by Tejas Deezul

Dont know been driving manuals all my life, in fact, that is all any of us own. We put 195,000 miles on our last NV-3500 and it still shifted like new, even had the OEM clutch.



I was told there were a bunch of bad counter-shafts (?) made by NV. Sure hope the current one holds up, so far, so good.



All the ones that went bad would grind 3rd real bad

Mine doesn't grind 3rd if I take it slow on the 1st shift of the day when the temperature is 45 degrees or below. After the first couple of shifts even in cold weather it is smooth. I can make it grind when it is cold. Funny, it is fine in the summer when it is warm 80-90 degrees. Got to be the fluid I have to admitt that it does not shift like a Honda, but its a truck and I don't try and speed shift it.

 

[Big Dawg]

The six speed was avaialble (at least on my '02) only with the high output Cummins, which is more money. If memory serves me right, the six speed was also extra money. The five speed weighs less but the six speed is a little beefier inside. I like the the six speed but don't really use first too much. First gear is a granny low. I was also under the impression that the final gear was the same on the five and six speed. Sometimes I like to cruise through somewhere peaceful and serene like a park or someplace with outdoor cafes in first gear. Trust me... . not all people like to hear the sound of the mighty Cummins

 

[MCummings]

If you could find a '99 S. O. Motor with a 6-speed, that would be cool. Very rare.



I have a '98. 5 6-speed



No matter what speed you are going, the 6-speed has a gear for it, compared to the 5-speed, sometimes it's lugging, sometimes you are high in the RPM.



The 6-speed appears to be about twice the size of the 5-speed, and if you talk to a mechanic who has swapped a 5-speed for a 6-speed, he will mostly likely tell you he invented all kinds of new cuss words when trying to wrestle the new transmission in. Mine did last year. He tells me he still uses those words on really hard engine rebuilds, and extremely stubborn parts.



Here's some pics,

5-speed,



#ad




6-speed,



#ad




#ad




Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[jmtandem]

5 or 5 speed?

It is my understanding that the 5 and 6 speeds have the same first gear ratios and fifth in the 5-speed is the same as sixth in the 6 speed. The big difference is a closer ratio of gears in the 6 speed. A 19 foot boat is not heavy and either transmission would likely work just fine. If you are looking for a used truck there are many other things to look for and consider in addition to the 5 or 6 speed transmission. The six speed is mated to the HO engine that has more power, a plus in my mind. But, either one will easily pull a 19 foot aluminum boat like it is not there.

 

[andrewkoperdak]

the one thing I did not see in ANY of these postings is the clutch. Believe it or not the 5 spd has a bigger and stronger clutch than the 6spd. I am sure some PBR drinker will say otherwise but the truth is the 5 spd clutch will drag the 6spd from Dallas to Houston. The 6spd has more gears for pulling and smoother in-town/hill pull driving but I will put money my 5spd will handle more torque than a 6spd. Doubters bring it on. Check the torque loading specs you will see that I am right.

I don't like my 5 spd between 25-40 MPH because I either have to shift up and lug my engine or shift down and Rev her up. A 19 foot anything is no load at all. Maybe your friend should by something with weight behind it like a Cat Dozer.

My truck has plenty of power so 1100 RPM or Higher I am going to dominate whatever lane I choose if that is necessary, 5 spd or 6 spd doesn't matter.

R,

Andy

 

[MCummings]

Originally posted by AKoperdak

the one thing I did not see in ANY of these postings is the clutch.

Let me change that.

Believe it or not the 5 spd has a bigger and stronger clutch than the 6spd. I am sure some PBR drinker will say otherwise but the truth is the 5 spd clutch will drag the 6spd from Dallas to Houston.

I don't believe it, and I'm not a drunk PBR participant.



5-speed clutch = 12. 3", 312. 5mm

6-speed clutch = 13. 0", 330mm





To Quote Peter @ South Bend Clutch. The Hub of the 13" clutch is 3x as strong as the 5-speed. (which explains why the center of the 5-speed clutchs rip out)

The 6spd has more gears for pulling and smoother in-town/hill pull driving but I will put money my 5spd will handle more torque than a 6spd. Doubters bring it on.

Here it comes. Money on the 5-speed?

Check the torque loading specs you will see that I am right.

Torque/shaft size Specs:

6-speed

Input Shaft: 1-3/8" 10 spline (after Aug 99)

Input torque rating 550 ft-lb

GCVWR: 26, 000 lb

**(A HD version for larger trucks is rated for 650 LB-ft input. )**



5-speed

Input shaft: 1-1/4" 10 spline

Input torque rating: 460 ft-lb

Max GCVWR: 21,000 lb

I don't like my 5 spd between 25-40 MPH because I either have to shift up and lug my engine or shift down and Rev her up.

~~~Gear~~~~5-spd~~6-spd

First Gear------- 5. 61 ---- 5. 63

Second Gear -- 3. 04 ---- 3. 38

Third Gear ----- 1. 67 ---- 2. 04

Fourth Gear --- 1. 00 ---- 1. 39

Fifth Gear ------ 0. 74 ---- 1. 00

Sixth Gear ----- N/A -----0. 73



Reverse- pre '98 5-speeds - 5. 61 ratio, post '98's - 5. 04

6-speed - 5. 63





Time for a 6-speed?

Merrick Cummings Jr

 

[andrewkoperdak]

Mcummins,

I sounds like you have a good grasp of most of the facts. The clutch and pressure plate on a 5spd are rated to 750 lb ft of torque before the possilbility of slippage. The 6spd is not. This is the foundation that I built my case.

The clutch on a 5spd has a large surface area and more psi than the smaller clutch on the 6spd. Check into it and you will see that I am right.



R,