555/VS Late build 600

[Russknh]

I can hardly believe it but I found a 555 sitting unsold at a dealer in Phoenix, the truck is not exactly what I would order but close enough to take it. I can get the vehicle at invoice minus all rebates(no great deal) but would like to get some current opinions on whether everyone feels the mileage problems are corrected now in the later build 600's and 05 600's--thanks -Russ

 

[CJ8Rockcrawler]

I found my 555 on the dealer's lot in July. One of only two 6spds in phoenix at the time. I chose to go with the 555 at the time due to the better fuel economy and lower emissions equipment. The power difference was a non-issue to me. As for which is better... that seems to somewhat fall to personal preference at this point.

 

[BRuppel]

im getting 13 in the city and 17 on the highway unloaded with my 04. 5 4x4. i can't complain b/c it is much better than my 98 360.

 

[PJ]

I have a 305/555 that I get 16. 5 in the city and just did a 2200 mile trip mostly highway at 75+ mph and had an avg of 19. 5 mpg. Wasnt towing anything. Right now, Im debating a trade up to a 04. 5 3500 4x4 with about the same options as my 04. It will cost me about $3500 to do the swap and Ill go from a 2500 4x4 with 13k miles to a 3500 4x4 with 0 miles. Still thinking. I dont mean to seal the thread bur anyone out there think Im crazy or should I go for it?????

 

[thejeepdude]

PBJ, I still say it would be silly to go from an 04 to an 04. 5. At least order an '05 or wait for the '05s to hit the lot. Of course, at the rate you buy trucks, you could buy an 04. 5, then an '05 in a few months and an 05. 5 after that and of course an '06 when the mega cab comes out...

 

[DocDetonancour]

If you like the truck, I'd go with the 555. Why buy the xtra crap on the engine? MHO... Doc

 

[PJereb]

What are you looking for? 4x2, 4x4?



With my 04. 5 4x2 I was getting about 15 around town and 17 on the freeway when it was new.



Now with 7,000 miles on it (and an Edge EZ)I am getting 17 around town and 19+ on the freeway. I am sure that I could break 20 (maybe 21) mpg, but that would require me to go 60-65mph, and a use a light foot. Some guys are reporting horrific mileage with the 04. 5's, but I have had good luck with mine. I think that any 3rd gen you choose would be fine. If you plan on heavy bombing it would be wise to get a 04, so that you don't have a catalytic converter. Just make sure what you get is what you want, and not a compromise.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

My '03 4x2 6-speed 555 usually got 18 in town and 20-22 highway at 70-75mph. At 80 it would drop to 19. 5.



Vaughn

 

[Russknh]

I am looking at the worst combo 4X4 dually, seems to be lower than all and why wouldn't!!

 

[PJereb]

EEK!

4x4 dually...

Why get a dually?

There are some nice looking 19. 5" wheels out now that will fit the single rear wheel pickups, providing the load capacity and stability of dual rear wheels on a single rear wheel pickup. For mileage make sure you get the 3. 73 gears, there is no need for the 4. 10’s unless you plan on running BIG tires, or plan on hauling something really heavy all the time.







Check out rickson wheels.





http://www.ricksontruck.com/

 

[DPelletier]

EEK!

4x4 dually...

Why get a dually?

There are some nice looking 19. 5" wheels out now that will fit the single rear wheel pickups, providing the load capacity and stability of dual rear wheels on a single rear wheel pickup. For mileage make sure you get the 3. 73 gears, there is no need for the 4. 10’s unless you plan on running BIG tires, or plan on hauling something really heavy all the time.







Check out rickson wheels.





http://www.ricksontruck.com/

I don't want to start another GVWR war, but why a dually?



- 1) 12,000 lbs GVWR vs. 9,900 GVWR

- 2) additional safety and stability

- 3) they look better!



The rickson solution is fine, but doesn't change how much you can LEGALLY haul and costs way more money than just buying a dually in the first place. I've also heard several rough-ride complaints with the 19. 5's. I'm at 11,555 lbs with my camper on and wouldn't have considered buying a SRW truck for this load.



Cheers

Dave

 

[DLeno]

There remains one credible argument, in my opinion, in favor of the 555: emmisions laws. that is, you are not quite as under the gun for local emissions testing with this motor. It is subject to 2003 laws and standards, not the new 04. 5 stuff. If you are inclined to take off the CAT (present on the 600 and not the 555) you may have a more difficult time staying legal. The local emissions testing station has to inspect for the CAT -- and note that it is illegal to remove it. Many guys don't have that problem, but its a heads-up. I sprang for the early 04 because of this issue. we have local inspections that test for particulates and inspect for the CAT, and I did not want to be subject to the new 04. 5 regs and un-wanted attention from the CAT gods.



on edit; I have a couple of thoughts on the GAWR and GVWR. the legal issue varies from state to state -- I can plate my truck for 26,000 GVWR without touching the truck itself. so that is purely a legal and taxable load issue in my state. GVWR itself is a rating imposed by NHTSA on the manufacturer -- not on you. So in some states it will may be perfectly legal to carry 12,000 lbs in a truck plated with 9900 lbs GVWR. In that sense, GVWR may not be a legal issue but it could become a liabilty issue, if you are loaded beyond the stamped GVWR and you are involved in an accident. It is also a warranty issue. Plated GVWR is established at the mfg, based on a number of factors, and is the mfg's statement of compliance with the federal motor vehicle safety regulations. Beefing up one component (like the wheels/tires) may in fact improve the weight carrying capability of the vehicle but it does not change the plated GVWR or GAWR. You don't even know for certain that this is the weakest link that drives the weight ratings. It may be, but you don't know. For example, the axle rating itself (GAWR) takes into consideration brakes and bearings in addition to wheels and tires.



Its a crazy crazy issue, believe me. I've been to the NHTSA chief counsel's office, as well as the office of motor vehicle saftey compliance, learning all about how GVWR and GAWR numbers are derived. Even when there appears to be a very sound technical justification for increased weight capability (and there are several, believe me), the lawyers can still get a sparkle in their eye if you go over the plated number.

 

[Scooby]

I totally agree with DLeno and DPellitier, if you are hauling heavy loads (like my Lance camper) it isn't worth the risk of going over your GVWR. Sure there is a margin of safety built in to the weight ratings, but when your insurance company (and their attorneys) realize you were a ton over your weight limit you can guess what will happen. Even if the accident wasn't your fault and/or the accident wasn't caused by you being over loaded. I moved up to a 3500 DRW from my 2500 for this exact reason. Better to be safe than to get in an accident, kill someone and get sued for everything you have and will ever earn. Isn't that how the saying goes?

 

[PJereb]

I don't mean to stir the pot too much, but how the hell is a DRW pickup more stable than a SRW?



I just don’t buy it, the springs are in the same spot on the axle and the frame, the spring rates are similar (maybe even identical to a 3500 SRW), there is no added anti-sway bars or any other goodies to make the pickup handle better, or be any more stable. It may LOOK more stable, but someone is going to have to come up with some solid physics as to WHY it is more stable. The only difference I could see is stability in soft soil and stability during a blowout. Sure the tires are further out, but during day to day travels through crosswinds and such that wont make a bit of difference, since it is the suspension that is flexing, it all has to do with sidewall stiffness, spring rates, and whatever anti sway stuff you have. If it was true that duals were more stable, why are more and more OTR trucks running heavy singles?



I agree about not going over your GCWR, but it is identical for a 3500 in SRW or DRW! I know duals are required for people that need a higher rear GAWR, like for some guys who haul heavy campers of 5th wheel trailers at and over the limits all the time, but otherwise I think they are a hindrance for several reasons.



Anti-DRW rant below…….

Providing you actually go off road in your 4x4 dually, you are asking for punctured sidewalls from rocks and other trail debris wedged between you duals, trail damage to your tires because you are too wide, and limited aftermarket choices for larger wheels and tires unless you have a golden checking account.

You are also going to get poorer fuel mileage, have to pay for 6 tires instead of four, have more un-sprung weight than a SRW, which will make the ride worse on washboard and when empty on the road. On top of that, if your pickup is your daily driver you have to park your really wide pickup somewhere. If you are just getting a DRW pickup for looks, and not for use, please mail me your extra money, because I could put it to good use.



Rant over, flame on

Peter

 

[DPelletier]

OK,

I'll bite against my better judgement. The DRW is more stable primarily due to having 8 sidewalls to limit flex instead of 4. It's safer because it has two wheels per side instead of one in the event of a blowout. You're right about the springs. What I can tell you based on personal experience is that after hauling my camper on my 2001. 5 2500 c/w Rancho 9000's, sway bar, load range E tires aired to 80 psi and custom 5 leaf overloads is that the dually is WAY more stable at highway speeds. No comparison. MAYBE the Rickson's would be almost as stable, but have you priced out a set lately? WAY cheaper just to buy a dually AND be legal at the same time. If you're worried about the cost of two extra tires every couple of years, the price of 19. 5" rims and tires would give you a coronary! The law may vary state to state, but up here you are illegal at 1lb over GVWR.

Of course a dually sucks off-road. A logging road is as far off-road as my truck gets, if I want to really go offroad, I take the jeep, not a 8338 lb dually QC longbox pickup truck.

Fact is, if you have a moderate to large slide-in camper or a large 5th wheel, the dually is a far better choice. I would never buy a dually just for looks, but when you need one, it is just the right tool for the job.



Ok, ready for the rebuttal.



Dave

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Put your feet close together and have someone try to push you over. Spread them out a bit and repeat. Duallys have a wider footprint.

 

[JJuday]

Way off of topic!

The man's question really hasn't been answered yet. He just wanted to know what the people prefered and recomended for his situation! Now everyone is going on this huge blowout about DRW v. s. SRW. I have an 03' 555, and I love it. It has more than enough torque for my needs even on the farm. I am still used to the 91' CTD and it's power. Hope that helps with your question. JJuday, in Iraq.

 

[BRayls]

I love the 555. The big problem with the 600 IMHO, the cat. Any of the other bad points are just extra. The 600 I have worked on has been a great truck,for the owner. Being into performance in the late 70's early 80's turned me off on cats. I know they have come a long way, but the engine still needs to breathe. As for the dually debate, I agree with Dave and Doug. Having owned both I prefer the srw but only because I tow less that I used to.

 

[Dean Upson]

OK,

I'll bite against my better judgement. The DRW is more stable primarily due to having 8 sidewalls to limit flex instead of 4. It's safer because it has two wheels per side instead of one in the event of a blowout. You're right about the springs. What I can tell you based on personal experience is that after hauling my camper on my 2001. 5 2500 c/w Rancho 9000's, sway bar, load range E tires aired to 80 psi and custom 5 leaf overloads is that the dually is WAY more stable at highway speeds. No comparison. MAYBE the Rickson's would be almost as stable, but have you priced out a set lately? WAY cheaper just to buy a dually AND be legal at the same time. If you're worried about the cost of two extra tires every couple of years, the price of 19. 5" rims and tires would give you a coronary! The law may vary state to state, but up here you are illegal at 1lb over GVWR.

Of course a dually sucks off-road. A logging road is as far off-road as my truck gets, if I want to really go offroad, I take the jeep, not a 8338 lb dually QC longbox pickup truck.

Fact is, if you have a moderate to large slide-in camper or a large 5th wheel, the dually is a far better choice. I would never buy a dually just for looks, but when you need one, it is just the right tool for the job.



Ok, ready for the rebuttal.



Dave

I agree with Dave. I used to have a large pick up camper and that is why I went from SRW to DRW back in 1986 (with a Ford diesel). There is no comparison. Now with the fiver, I need the extra capacity of the DRW for the pin-weight. If I could get away with it I would have a 3500 SRW 4x4 SB, much easier to park

To stay on track, I would get a 555 because of the emissions as stated in other replies.



Dean

 

[Russknh]

I want to thank all of those who took their time to give me their opinions and throw a little more into the off-topic of duals vs singles. I have used both in the past and even had the sme overloaded Lance camper on botk a 96 with singles and a 96 with duals. I spent a fortune on the single wheel truck going to better tires and wheels, bilsteins and even drove up to hellwig and had a special sway bar made for it,BUT I then moved my 11'3" 4700 lb Lance onto a 96 with duals and just airbags and I thought I had bought a train. I had a tst plate and a us gear splitter in this truck with a 5 speed and I used to chase Corvettes up hill with the camper onboard,everytime they looked in the mirror and I was still on their -ss going around the corner they could not believe, so I can tell you I would not run an overhead camper without the outriggers out there--thanks Russ

I guess I should tell all those backhoe operators at work they don't need to put those down either since the tires and springs are all at the same place