5th wheel/truck capability questions

[crispyboy]

Hey guys I wanted to ask some 5th wheel questions for a friend of mine. He currently owns a hybrid camper and saw a 5th wheel at the local camping store. I don't know much about 5th wheels in general but I know many here on TDR have good knowledge.
He currently owns a 2019 F250 XLT, 6.2 gas, 6 speed transmission and 3:73 gear ratio. Tow capacity is 12,500 and payload is ~3000 I believe.
He was enamored with a 2016 Northwood Fox Mountain 335BHS because of the amount of beds (8 kids, 6 still at home) and storage.
When he purchased his truck 2 years ago he was just going get a larger bumper pull but as you know things change.
He knows that this particular trailer is over his trucks towing capacity but within the pin weight capacity of his truck.
Would a single wheel 350/3500 truck handle this trailer?
At what point does a dual wheel truck come into play?
This truck is also a daily driver.
I have seen some sort of trailer buying guide mentioned on TDR before but I don't remember what it is called? Any ideas?
He is not married to the current truck so it is possible that he may sell it and look to purchase the correct sized truck.
Is the Northwoods products considered a decent trailer? Is the brand considered low grade, mid grade or high grade?
Can a gooseneck conversion be put on this trailer?

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2016-northwood-fox-mountain-fifth-wheel-floorplan-335bhs-tr26017

 

[BarryG]

I would have no trouble using a 3500 srw to pull it. I think it might be out of his current trucks weight class though. That published pin weight is going to be way low as they always are and pretty much worthless. Take 20% of the trailer gvw and figure that as a more realistic pin weight. for this trailer I would really expect that pin weight to be more like 2500-2800, add the weight of the hitch 150lb, passengers 600lbs, another stuff you have in the bed or the truck and he will be well over his payload capacity as well. I am no weight police but that trailer would be a stretch for a 2500.

Fox Mountain is made by Northwoods. Northwoods is a pretty solid trailer manufacturer and usually well thought of. The fox mountain line is their lighter weight line compared to their arctic fox line which has a very good reputation. We looked at some of them and the floorpan just didn't work for us. They had one that did but could not find it anywhere as they quit building it that year. I would have bought one after looking at their bhs model perhaps the same model your friend is looking at and another model I thought it was well thought out, lots of storage and many other things that i really liked about it

 

[Tuesdak]

2016 Northwood Fox Mountain 335BHS GVWR 13,500 lbs.

Weigh the truck full of fuel with all passengers in it: and with the RV on it keep it below or at the truck's capacity. Not a fun game to play with "not enough truck". I doubt they will find a much lighter RV for what they want. So go get a pickup that can handle this easy. Gas engines should be able to handle the little hills y'all got out there. Seriously listening to a gas engine scream on grades is the only reason to reach for a diesel. TCO on daily driver diesels eats up MPG savings quick esp. with the higher unloaded MPG gas engines get now.

The pin weight of my AF unloaded is 1780 LBS. 7780 trailer axles and 1780 on rear of pickup = 9560 total 5er weight... leaving me with 3440 lbs before I reach the 5er's GVWR of 13,000. (And adds another ~ 688 lbs on the 5er hitch and rear of the pickup. ~2468 lbs pin at max RV weight assuming it doesn't get stuffed full past overloaded.) I travel light, but, with kids I doubt they do.

DRW vs. SRW example is 10,000 more trailer and another 5000 lbs with the 4.10. This is reaching over CDL territory.

https://www.ramtrucks.com/content/dam/fca-brands/na/ramtrucks/en_us/towing/2018 Ram 3500.pdf

 

[Ozymandias]

Fox Mountain is also a couple inch narrower then the standard fifth wheels.
I'd like it.

 

[crispyboy]

At what weight or length should a dual wheel truck be truly necessary? Any rules of thumb? I understand that a dual wheel truck will always tow better but is there a certain point a single wheel could get the job done?

 

[AH64ID]

When you’re going to be at/near RAWR then it’s time to consider a DRW. For me that would be about 2750-3000 in pin weight with careful truck loading.

I spend a lot of time towing on roads where a DRW wouldn’t be better so I’ll always limit my trailer size based on keeping a SRW. I’ve also ran 19.5’s to stay SRW.

We’re interested in a Fox Mountain 235RLS as our next 5th wheel. We’ve been happy with the ORV branch of the Nash family of trailers and want to stay with the parent company.

 

[Tuesdak]

The Daily Driver use of the truck would make life with a DRW harder: snow/ice traction and parking for example. I recommend the factory air suspension as a DRW with it rides nicer than my SRW without air. YMMV but here is a 2018 model year.

Again the RV he is looking at is only 500 LBS over mine. My 2003 was short 500 lbs for the max GVWR of my 5th wheel. My 2018 can tow 16,850. Both SRW.

Gas engines you would want the lower rear end ratio. However the gas engine is limited to only more cargo and not much more trailer towing (200lbs) by going DRW.

So for a gas engine and towing an RV a DRW doesn't make sense. (For a slide in truck camper the gas engine keeps the weight down so cargo is ~1000 lbs more with a gas engine 4.10 DRW.)

 

[NIsaacs]

He currently owns a 2019 F250 XLT, 6.2 gas, 6 speed transmission and 3:73 gear ratio. Tow capacity is 12,500 and payload is ~3000 I believe.

Would a single wheel 350/3500 truck handle this trailer?

Hauling/towing capacity questions are almost impossible to answer. Too many variables on the trucks and drivers experience/ability.

Using just the 2019 Ford towing guide, there is no difference (6.2 gasser) between the 250 and 350 srw. Trailer weight and GCW is the same.

So, now you need to compare GAWR, GVWR and diesel models.

If you go new, 2021-22, now you need to research all over again.

For example, my '21 Ram 2500 is rated 10k GVW but a Ford F-250 can go as high as 10.8k gvw, no clue on GM

Something the towing guides don't mention is wind resistance, huge factor. I would much rather tow my dump at 26k gcw than a fifthwheel RV at 23k.

My Ford Escape considers a roof top carrier, the same as towing and includes it into the heavy service for the maintenance guide.

Exhaust brake on a diesel, big plus over a gasser, again, the tow guides don't mention that.

 

[AnonEd]

Something the towing guides don't mention is wind resistance, huge factor. I would much rather tow my dump at 26k gcw than a fifthwheel RV at 23k.

FWIW, Ford uses 75 sq ft frontal area for 5th-wheel/gooseneck and 60 sq ft for any other application for SuperDuty... a few F-150s with lower tow ratings are 55. Escape, Bronco Sport and Bronco are all 20-30.

 

[2Farr]

I have a 35 foot fifth wheel trailer. It weighs 9200 lbs. When I used my 98 2500 4wd ram to tow it, it towed just fine. In the corners the truck some times would lean a little. Now I have a 99 3500 DRW 4wd truck. It drives just the same. Going around corners on a two lane road there is no lean. Feels more stable.

 

[crispyboy]

My friend ended up purchasing the trailer. He had been watching the price. When he first looked it was $42k, then dropped to $39k, then $37k. He and his wife went to just take a look and ended up purchasing it for $32k. He wondered why the trailer was still for sale in the middle of all the other "sold" trailers. The salesmen said the floor plan was not popular and needed that certain person to purchase it. My friends needs beds to put family members and this trailer has them. He did follow the advise I have seen posted many times on this forum and he is installing the B&W Companion hitch in his truck. He is going to try the current truck and see how things go. If it's not right then he is smart enough to make a change to a more appropriate tow vehicle.
Thanks for everyones comments.

 

[Tuesdak]

@crispyboy Best thing he can do is weigh it loaded for bear. Then make sure no weights are exceeded. Generally making sure the RV doesn't weigh more than 12,500 after doing the math on before and after truck rear wheel weight. Things like a 2nd battery being left out and not filling the water tank can help keep weight down. Otherwise some "pain" as heavy stuff gets unloaded and left behind to bring the weight down...

Good choice on the hitch.

IMO the NorthWoods is a step above most other stuff out there. My 2003 Arctic Fox is old enough to vote now...