6.7L Engine Issue, Chassis Cab Only

[HBarlow]

Well, I guess I shouldn't have reported last week that my truck had 20,000 troublefree miles on it.



Last Thursday morning I had my son-in-law's new Haulmark Car Hauler trailer hooked up and was leaving town when I got a chime and a check engine light. No messages were displayed in the EVIC, the truck started and ran normal, gauges all read normal, coolant and oil levels were normal, fuel filter was fresh, and the air filter was clean. I was on my way to Charlotte, NC to pick up a vintage Corvette my s-i-l had just bought on eBay and time was critical so I decided to go anyway.



I ran the truck hard for five days, almost 3,000 miles pulling an empty trailer outbound and a loaded trailer inbound without incident.



This a. m. I took the truck to a local Dodge dealer and reported the problem.



This afternoon about 2:30 the service writer called and said the problem was a P0191 code which identified an intake temperature sensor error.



About 4:30, after I picked my wife up from work in her car that I had borrowed, I stopped by the dealer to check on the truck. My truck repair had made a sharp left turn this afternoon after the service writer called.



The bottom line is the truck is not repaired, is not currently repairable, and may be or may not be repaired in October. It is, however, driveable and drives completely normally.



After interpreting the P0191 code earlier today as an intake temp sensor error and notifying me, the tech apparently learned that was not correct.



When I stopped by this afternoon to check on the truck the service writer said the tech learned later that a P0191 means intake sensor on a pickup, but has a different meaning on a chassis cab. I don't know if this is correct or not but, if true, sounds like a bad idea. He explained that a P0191 code in a chassis cab means fuel pressure error or fuel pressure sensor error.



He gave me a printed page from their computer which reads:



"Part Number 68002436AB"

"Part Description: Sensor, Fuel Rail Pressure"



"2007/2008 Ram 3500 Chassis Cab and Ram 4500/5500 with a 6. 7L Cummins diesel: If ordering this sensor for a P0191 fault, please be aware that in the majority of cases this fault is being driven (in error) by the engine software, not a faulty sensor. We are working on a software update to correct the issue and will release the software via a TSB. TSB release is tentatively targeted for October 2008. Contact xxxxx xxxxxx of Cummins at: (xxx) xxx-xxxx if you have further questions. " (Name and number deleted by me)



The tech said he measured fuel pressure and it is normal and thinks the sensor is okay, the software just thinks it is not. He couldn't explain why this suddenly occurred at 20,000+ miles.



The tech attempted to clear the fault code but it immediately returns and remains on. So, I guess I'll keep driving it and waiting for a software update which I probably don't want because it may involve unwanted fuel curve changes. I hope not. The tech told me this morning he was not aware of any TSB software changes for 2008 C&Cs when I told him I didn't want any reflashes.



The tech told me today, without sounding certain, that when a fault code is set, the engine does not regen and advised me to watch the EVIC for a warning that the DPF is becoming full. He says if this happens return the truck and he will do a forced regen.



This event today makes me wonder why Cummins refused to answer a regen question several months ago but told me to ask Dodge. Based on the message quoted above I am less convinced that Dodge is responsible for the engine software and components. I asked the tech today and he did not know who makes and is responsible for the software but clearly, from the message I quoted above, it appears Cummins is.



I did learn one useful thing today. It IS possible to read out the codes in the odometer of '08 trucks. It is done by turning the key on and off three times rapidly without pause. Some have reported that it can't be done on new trucks. I watched the tech do it repeatedly.



Do any Dodge technician/TDR members have anything to contribute to a broader understanding of this issue?

 

[sag2]

Have not run into it yet, but it does seem strange that if it is software the problem just showed up. However the tech tip is in the system so they must have knowledge of the problem. The diagnostic for key on only runs after an 8 hour cold soak, so I'm assuming the code returned after starting and idling the truck. We had a similar problem a couple of years ago on 5. 9 that was caused by residual pressure in the rail after shut down. A flash softened the set point so keying on with residual pressure didn't set the code.

I have worked with the lady noted in the tech tip a couple years ago on a turbo code and she seemed to be a very capable engineer, so I would be confident it will get corrected quickly.

 

[HBarlow]

I had the good fortune and pleasure of speaking to an engineer at Cummins today about my problem.



The symptom that will be cured by a software update is different from the symptom I am seeing. According to the Cummins engineer, the symptom they are aware of occurs randomly and briefly at idle and the CEL can be reset and will disappear.



When I described my symptom, CEL always on and not resettable, the engineer told me my situation is caused by something different.



So, I rescheduled my appointment with my selling dealer, Glen Polk Autoplex in Gainesville, TX They are 300 miles away but are a very professional operation. The diesel techs are factory trained and certified by Chrysler/Dodge. At least one of them is level IV trained and certified on the Cummins engine.



They are also a 100% honest straightforward five star dealership that is run with very high professional standards throughout. I have bought 3 Dodge-Cummins trucks and a Chrysler 300C from them in recent years.



I normally avoid my local Dodge dealership but was hoping to avoid a 600 mile roundtrip pulling my fiver to obain service. Guess it didn't work.

 

[PRout]

Since you have gone the distance to give them that much business, the least they can do is pay for half the fuel when the repair trip happens. Wouldnt hurt to ask about some kind of reimbursement in your diplomatic way.

Good luck on the repair - at least you can drive it. .

Added: Its no wonder there are so many bugs in the software to be worked out. From reading about it only allowing display of codes on the odo after 8 hrs, makes me think the coding is very "over-complicated". I see this happening in my work environment and software bugs are costing a LOT of money.

 

[HBarlow]

Since you have gone the distance to give them that much business, the least they can do is pay for half the fuel when the repair trip happens. Wouldnt hurt to ask about some kind of reimbursement in your diplomatic way.



Good luck on the repair - at least you can drive it. .



Added: Its no wonder there are so many bugs in the software to be worked out. From reading about it only allowing display of codes on the odo after 8 hrs, makes me think the coding is much over-complicated.

Good idea but I buy the trucks at invoice so they don't make a killing on each one I've bought from them. They are good people who treat me like every customer wants to be treated. I won't ask them for more.



I forget who posted that but I'll have to respectfully disagree with the statement about displaying the fault code after an 8 hour cold soak. I drove my truck around town several times today and then this afternoon drove it 12 miles down to Southwest Wheel to check on parts ordered for my son-in-law's trailer. I parked in front of their store, shut it off, then rapidly switched the key on and off three times. P0191 was displayed. Cold soak is not required on a chassis cab.



Thanks for your good wishes. I am confident that if the problem can be identified and repaired Glen Polk's service department will take care of it. And the city of Gainesville has an inexpensive city-owned RV park with full hookups just south of the dealership along I-35 for me to stay in while the work is done or if I have to wait for a part.

 

[jelag]

Harvey...

I talked to my driver today... we now have 38K on our 08 5500 and had a couple of issues at the start... but nothing in 30K miles... Frankly each of the repairs that we've had were on the road at least 600 miles from the shop. .

We've not seen over full oil, like mentioned in some of these threads, (oil level is checked when we fuel). We've not noticed the truck go into Regen nor has the driver seen extra power to tell us its doing that... .

We run the truck at GVW (19500) most of the time at freeway speeds... . its been averaging about 10-11 mpg.

We've not seen the change oil display... we are now at 7500 miles and will go to 10K after the next change... .

Overall we're very happy with this truck, hopefully it will continue to perform at this level like our 04, 04. 5 and 05

Because the truck is running smoothly we're wary about getting any updates in the software... . if its not broke don't touch it... . or something like that.....

 

[HBarlow]

Jim,



In another thread I reported the outcome of my trip to the dealer.



The truck fixed itself! Yes, after a 300 mile trip to see the dealer tech the ECM cleared the code before I made it to the service drive and it has not returned. The dealer tech checked it out and found nothing to repair or replace. He told me what I had already learned, a software update is scheduled to be released in October that is intended to address the false CEL. I'm not going to allow it to be performed unless the CEL returns and stays on.



And it was not simply towing 300 miles that cleared the CEL. During the week or so that the CEL was lighted I towed a trailer at highway speeds from West Texas to Charlotte, NC and back.



I am completely satisfied with my truck. No parts have been replaced, no procedures have been performed, no computer flashes have been loaded. It has 25k miles on the odometer now.