Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 6 spd shifting?

[Oxjockey]

I know this topic is very popular, but I have a different question than most of the ones I found in searching. Is first syncroed? Mine acts like it isn't. I cannot shift into first while moving, and even when it's stationary, it's notchy. I have less than 1000 miles on the thing, and I can't imagine it getting any better.



Does this seem right? It's a brandy new 2002...



Ugh. What kind of loaner am I going to get when it goes back?



Thanks!

Bryan

 

[Whitmore]

give it time, they are stiff when new, just like when you were first married ... ... ... ... ... . give it time it will loosen up

 

[jtisdale]

I have driven almost a dozen six speeds, some 01's, some 02's. Some with 0 miles, and a few with 50,000 miles. One thing is for sure, they dont shift like the 5 speeds. More like a stick in a bucket of rocks. Whitmore is right, they will loosen up some. Definetly a truck transmission.

 

[Oxjockey]

I guess my problem is that I can't get it into first at all, it grinds too badly. The notchiness into third isn't so bad, but I'm thinking of taking it back in if it is indeed syncroed.



I should mention I haven't tried double clutching or shifting into second then first yet...



Bryan

 

[slavallee]

In my 6'er, It seems like a tow truck transmission. 2-6 sould be labeled 1-5 and 1st should be labeled L for low. 1st seems like the red headed step child in the gear box. You still love it, but it just doesn't fit in at times

 

[rspinks]

1st is syncro'd but because it's such a low ratio it's never going to be as smooth shifting into as the other forward gears. My NV4500 was similar as I recall. I double-clutch into first as a matter of habit.



FWIW my 6spd has really improved now that I have nearly 10,000mi on it. Since I got this truck I've been shifting excessively and working the syncros at red lights to help break everything in. It's not as smooth as the 5spd and sometimes I still get lost between gears if I'm not paying attention, but overall I'm happy with the trend towards better shifting. I'm happy to trade slightly notchy shifts for the excellent gear ratios of the 6spd vs. 5spd.

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

I just got my '02 last thurs. Since i picked it up with 32 miles on the odo i must say this is the best shifting truck transmission i have ever driven and that includes my little old nissan pickup it is darn near as good as my wifes honda civic, reverse has taken some getting used to (maybe it was just me) but after 1200 miles now i couldn't be more pleased with the trans. approaching turns and such without stopping ie going from 6th to 3rd or 4th i need more practice once i get used to the ratios i will be fine, I am not quite used to the different ratios and the different powerband that the ISB has compared to my old truck. One tip about using 1st gear is once you are rolling always hit second don't use first gear unless you are dead from a stop and that includes being loaded. even my old getrag doesn't like to be downshifted into first gear once rolling.

 

[Oxjockey]

Originally posted by cummins cowboy

One tip about using 1st gear is once you are rolling always hit second don't use first gear unless you are dead from a stop and that includes being loaded. even my old getrag doesn't like to be downshifted into first gear once rolling

That's what I've been doing, for the most part, but today I was in traffic and tried to downshift, but nuh-uh. I'll live with it, I'm sure.



Thanks for all the input! #ad




Bryan

 

[Texas Diesel]

I'm on my second 6 speed. The first one lasted 27,000 and when it got bad enough to warrant repair they replaced it BECAUSE I had consistently complained about 1st and 3rd gear grinding. Everyone is right, they don't shift like a car transmission or a 5 speed but I don't think your sounds like it is right. Give it a few thousand miles but I would suggest that you get a few complaints on record.



BTW, the new one is great, notchy but never grinds.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

YUP - 1st IS syncro'd - but pretty resistant to get into if yer rolling very fast - and other than approaching an uphill stop while seriously loaded, not much real NEED to downshift to 1st while in motion!



As mentioned above, my 6 spd is still new - 2000 miles - and I expect the stiffness of both reverse and 1st will ease off with time and miles - the transmission will NEVER shift like the 6 speed in my '98 Camaro SS - but the Camaro never was espected to tow 13,000 lbs at 65 mph over the Sierras, either!

 

[1tuffram]

Does this seem right??

I have a 2002 6 sp with 1300 miles on the clock. Prior to purchasing this truck I read about every 6 sp thread and what appeared to be a common problem with them "grinding" mainly when shifting into 3rd. From what I recall that problem was supposedly fix about a year ago by New Venture (something about bad syncros I believe). Anyway I paid really close attention for any problems when I took delivery. What I noticed was the 6 sp shifted very stiff and of coarse the common problem of finding reverse when just switching over from the 5 sp. But I never had any grinding, etc when shift the new 6 sp. Sometimes it would be a little "notchy" when rushing 2nd to 3rd shifts. I found by letting the RPMS drop back down to idle made for a smooth shift. Only problem with this is by the time the RPMs drop I almost get rear-ended by those following. Now for the past approx 300 miles I have noticed 2nd to 3rd getting every so slightly more finicky (could just be my imagination) and I have found double cluthing for this shift results in a smooth shift with NO notchy or "bite" feel in the shift lever. I know this is a heavy duty truck transmission and will not be as smooth as my 5 sp (daily driver), but do you think I have a problem starting to develop? I think it may be a bit to pre-mature to waste any time at the dealer for something I'm not sure yet is even a problem, but I like get on top of things early before a whole string of problems result from neglecting to take care of something early on (something DC and stealers just doesn't believe in)

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I only use 3rd perhaps 30% of the time - I usually go from 2nd to 4th - and when I do use 3rd, always try to take my time (within reason) to avoid rushing the syncros. That said, mine is getting easier and smoother to shift - but I can sense that if ANY gear was gonna display a tendency to grind, it would be 2nd to 3rd... I'm not by any means a transmission expert, but looking at the shift pattern, I suspect there is a unique physical circumstance or condition that places greater demand upon the 2nd to 3rd gear change than the others - or maybe there IS a weakness lurking in the 3rd gear syncro arrangement - it'll be worth watching - mine's fine so far - knock on wood!

 

[Texas Diesel]

Re: Does this seem right??

Originally posted by 1tuffram

I think it may be a bit to pre-mature to waste any time at the dealer

It never hurts to get a complaint history. It's difficult to bring it in and say it has been doing that for a long time and have no history of complaints. I've told my dealer that I didn't care if they could duplicate an intermittent problem as long as they document my complaint.



If you could see the physical size of the gears in a 6 speed you would be amazed it shifts at all.

 

[FCrawford]

I put about 212,000 miles on my 99 five speed and have 72,000 on my 2002 six speed. The six is very smooth. I changed the xmission oil at 15,000 (over kill) and again last week (more over kill). I also get lost in the gears sometimes when I am careless. It took a little bit to get used to when I changed from the 5 to the 6 speed but now I don't even think about it. Sometimes I try to shift into first when I am rolling up to a light but it over revs and like the others have said it is best to be stopped to start out in first. I have paid more attention to my rpms and when it is time to shift to the next gear and it works very well. It seems to me that if I get it up to 2000 rpm and maybe ever higher (2400/2500) going into 5th and then sixth is best. Roughly my shift points ( I'm open for suggestions, comments) seem to be:

10 mph shift to second

30 mph shift to third

40/45 mph shift to fourth

55 mph shift to fifth

65 ish shift to sixth ( I hope I remembered this correctly)

 

[1tuffram]

Re: Re: Does this seem right??

Originally posted by Texas Diesel





It never hurts to get a complaint history. It's difficult to bring it in and say it has been doing that for a long time and have no history of complaints. I've told my dealer that I didn't care if they could duplicate an intermittent problem as long as they document my complaint.



If you could see the physical size of the gears in a 6 speed you would be amazed it shifts at all.

Well I'm VERY skeptical of a documented history on this. Here is my reason from personal experience. On my '95 I had problems with shifting the transfer case into 4-high. I complained to dealers for 3 yrs and got the typical documentation of "Unable to verify, no problems found". Well sure as I TRIED TO BY-PASS THE CUSSING FILTER about 10K miles past the warranty the transfer case decided to give it up. I'll give you one guess of who ended up eating the repair cost It seemed in the dealer's and DC's opinion a problem never existed with my transfer case because they where unable to verify my complaints when I still had a warranty. From this first hand experience I have little faith in dealers or DC when it comes to warranty claims for high cost items or repairs.

 

[ReggieRam]

It gets better

Just about to hit 80k on my six speed, and I was a bit worried at first because it was a bit of a rough shift. Things are much better with time and miles, like a fine wine without the miles. Now I can downshift into first while moving easily, as long as I'm going under 10 MPH. I've always been big on downshifting to save the brakes, and it was a lot more difficult when the truck was new. But nowadays, as long as I'm below what would be redline on the downshift, it's easy. Give it time and miles, and you'llg get used to the groove of where the gears are, and the truck will get smoother.

 

[MikeR]

Originally posted by Oxjockey



That's what I've been doing, for the most part, but today I was in traffic and tried to downshift, but nuh-uh. I'll live with it, I'm sure.

Oxjockey,



There's no reason why you should be dowshifting INTO 1st gear when the truck is moving. It is too low of a gear to be doing that with.

 

[EricBu12]

Here is a thing on the specs for the 6sp



http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/transmission/nv5600_spec.html



heres another link that is in the area of the above one



http://www.dodgeram.org/tech/transmission/NV5600/mt_11.htm

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Interesting pointers Eric - the detailed info and photos sorta reinforce my suspicion that the reason shifts into 3rd gear are seemingly more UMmmmm, sensitive, is due to the fact that 3rd and 4th gear and syncro are (unlike the rest of the gears) mounted on a separate countershaft - probably delivering a somewhat "different" feel and effect when going into that gear...



"The synchros for 1-2, 5-6, and revers shifts are located on the upper shaft, while the 3-4 synchronizer is mounted on the countershaft. Positioning the synchronizer on the countershaft helps reduce gear rattle. "

 

[Sarge]

First Gear.......

Remember, first is a creeper gear meant to get heavy loads rolling, not for putting around town. I have 17000 on my six'er and it is definintely easier than when I brought it home. Be patient, and remember, IT'S A TRUCK!!!! Go easy for a while, it will get easier, and you will get better... ... ... Sarge