93 300's in a boat

[Todd T]

I'll post this here and would like to ask for some basic and most common ways of getting more power out of the VE pumped engines.



my good friend's father just bought a 1993 55’ Bluewater yacht. it has two "300hp's" I can only assume this means marine versions of the 93 model B's. he has asked me to assume the role of maintaining these babies and I naturally agreed. We cannot leave these alone, that is almost criminal. Can you guys tell me the chain of events to turning these babies up? I know the common stuff like gauges, so start past there please. .



I will do a search to see what I can find as well, but at this point I don’t know what key words to even search for.



BTW I have had two 12v’s and one 24v. I never had the pleasure of owning the 93 and down versions. I have all the tooling required “I think” to work on these, just need a jump start.



Thanks

Todd

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

If the engines can reach maximum rpm, do not turn up the engines. If you want more speed, then change the props with more pitch and then turn up the engines.



The HP reqirements are set by the prop rpm and are a function of the rpm cubed (twice the prop rpm requires 8 times the HP).

 

[Todd T]

thanks Bolts, i agree and disagree.



lets not take a conservative look at this... that is not what he or I are about. if we have more power on tap we can prop it accordingly.



if more power is on hand, then you get to plane faster, accelerate faster and potentially can increase top speed by increasing peak RPM's. BTW it will turn 2500 now.



things to consider, EGT, EGT' and EGT's. keep in mind its ran in water and the cooling capacity is ten fold of our Rams.



i pulled the pump mods off of Dave's site. i will read through those and apply what i can of them.



what injectors would these have? bigger and better than something like a POD. should we call DD for something special

 

[Boldt's Wagon]

If you are now at 2500 rpm, the question is now are you HP limited by the props or are you running up against the engine governor? The first step would be to adjust the gov for higher rpm. Ask Powerwagon how to adjust the gov. If you are turning a true 300 HP at 2500 rpm, 2750 rpm requires 400 hp with the same props.



I suspect you are starting to defuel with the engine gov (conservative engineering by the manufacturer). Do you know what the engine rpm rating was/is? What are the props, 3/4/5 blade, diameter, and pitch? Then you can look up or calculate the prop HP requirements.

 

[David Oxland]

Todd



Do you want more power and noise or boat speed. If it's speed don't forget drag and things like clean bottom.



Also it doesn't fit that just because it's in water that you can wind up the power and boot that extra waste heat away. Heat exchangers have limits and might well have been designed or chosen for the this power appliction.





David

 

[RDusch]

Todd, i think your going to find that even with the raw water cooling if you turn up the fuel you'll still have a heat problem,

the diferance being, in a truck the engine is only under full load a short period of time, once the truck gets up to speed the the load on the engine drops off and your useing less than half rated power, in a boat wether your running 1500 rpm or 2500 rpm the load on the engine is the same, and if the boat has the right set of wheels that will be full power and making a lot of heat all the time.



but if you want to try it go here ... Good luck



http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/more_power/Power_ve.htm

 

[Todd T]

I guess i should withdrawl the question. i didnt post this to be lectured. i'm not new to diesels or watercraft. maybe i read too much into this ?? who knows.



i was just looking for a shortcut to my homework.



all i want are the power secrets for the first gen engine.



Todd

 

[Dfeland]

Why ask for answer's and then just get mad? Obviusly everything here are people's educated opinion's. Don't get wrapped around the axle just smile.

 

[Midnite]

Todd, are you sure those are B's? The reason I ask is that I think there are a few versions of the 8. 3L C series that were/are around 300HP, and from your original post it didn't sound like you'd had a chance to actually see them yet.



Also, I'm thinking that if they're B's, then isn't 300HP (flywheel) getting close to the limit of the VE pump? In other threads here, the consensus seemed to be that about 250 rear wheel HP was the limit of the VE pump in Dodge applications, and I'm not sure how much flywheel HP that translates to.



All that being said, the basics for upping the power on the VE engines is here. It may also pay to look at replacing the turbos with PDR HX35's with appropriately sized exhaust housings, but maybe not.



Mike

 

[MikeO]

If it's a pleasure marine installation, then it is a B. The major differences are the pistons, injectors and turbo. Unfortunately, you are out of luck with the turbo. What you see is what you get. It is non wastegated and water jacketed (the entire turbine housing and exhaust is water jacketed) so you can't replace it. Doesn't matter much anyhow because you don't really need spool up between shifts.



You can definetely throw some PODs in but I'd talk to Piers first because you likely have 180s in now. Bigger injectors and some timing work on the pumps will work miracles.



As far as noise goes... if you adjust the lash it should actually be a little quieter if you can get the EGTs to 1050 or higher. My setup actually gets quieter with temps. If you are getting consistently higher EGTs than you want, consider a switch to a water based intercooler. Spearco has some great ones. You'll be amazed at what a 100F drop in intake temps will do for power and economy.



Mike O.

 

[A Johnson]

Todd, my guess is that these will have Nippendenso inline pumps on them, I am not sure how to turn them up if this is the case.

Most marine pleasure craft engines are built pretty snorty from the get go, not to say you couldn't do something if you find the right information. I would verify the type of fuel pump and then maybe some one can help you easier. I'm going by memory but I think the VE pump only went to 250 HP in marine. - A Johnson

 

[JLEONARD]

Todd,

Go to www.boatdiesel.com and ask those questions in the Cummins forum there. You don't have to become a member to read the forum and post questions.

The moderator of the Cummins section is very knowledgeable. There are also many forum readers and perhaps one of them has gone thru what you are trying to accomplish.

BTW, I re-powered a single screw trawler 2 years ago with a Cummins B series 270 hp diamond series... ... and the forum moderator helped me out a bunch.

Hope this helps!!