93 w250 clutch replacement??

[berksbr]

first time post...



getting ready to replace a clutch on 93 w250... my truck is "slightly" modified, maybe an extra 60 horespower with the pump turned up 5%, 3. 5" exhaust (straight pipe), getting new injectors (25-40 more horespower), and a k&n air filter.



truck hs 215k miles, clutch is starting to chatter, and releases really late... was just trying to be proactive before it goes out completely.



it was originally owned by my dad, who babied it, and is now a daily driver and official work truck, which i use to haul firewood and a log splitter. i will never sell the truck and do not plan on doing any more modifications. any recommendations or advice on replacing the stock clutch would be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance :-laf

 

[RSchwarzli]

First off, welcome to the funny farm! You will like it here!



As for the clutch, are you looking for instal directions are clutch recommendations?



As for clutch, I have found South Bend Clutch to be one of the best. For your application, I would suggest a Con O 13125. Will give you great durability, up to 800 ft/lbs, and great life.



In the event you are needing more of a budget clutch, can get a 0090. Will aslo work. It is basically a stock clutch. If you are doing injectors though, I would suggest the first one. Do it right to avoid doing it again.



Robert



Info here: South Bend Clutch Dodge Clutch Kits Catalog

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

Times 2 ^^ SBC has a great product and great support.



Bob

 

[berksbr]

Thanks for the greeting much appreciated... I have found TDR to be a great resource!

I found some install directions on SB's website, but was looking to spend around $500. 00 if possible. Do you recommend staying away from napa, and autozone??

Most of the replacement clutches are the 12. 5" and I was told to stay away from them...

I have tried to look for the original Sachs clutch but haven't been able to find one... Just trying to justify the extra money if i go with a SB clutch. If you have any recommendations outside of SB I would be glad to hear them, but overall just want an honest opinion either way. Thanks again

 

[Bob Beauchaine]

I would urge you to call Peter at SBC and talk to him - you just might be surprised.



Bob

 

[NIsaacs]

Yes, stay away from the small replacement clutch. The original Sachs is a good way to go for your power level, keep looking they are still available. One thing to check, is the pin from the clutch master cylinder where it connects to the clutch pedal, they can wear almost in two with a short stroke as the result.



Nick

 

[RSchwarzli]

Let me put it this way. I was in your EXACT position about 18 months ago. Went like this:



The 1990 was an auto. I converted it to stick. The truck at the time made 178/500. Not alot of power. I did not want to spend alot of money so I got a 0090 South bend. That clutch is essentially a Sachs clutch. It was also in my price range. To even further skimp, I resurfaced my flywheel as it was still good. Total cost was like $300. I was happy..... or so I thought.



4 months later. I really liked the stick. As it was better than the auto, I decided to turn the fuel screw up. I then had 250/700. Well, 5 months later my clutch was shimmying and shaking... . it was toast! Remember, I did NOT even do an intake, exhaust, injectors - NOTHING! Just pump adjusting!



So what did I do? I had few options. I had a 6 month old slipping clutch and I could hadly drive empty never mind tow. E brake was useless. So, I dropped another $1000 on a performance clutch as I should have done in the first place. Did I need to spend $1000? No, but I knew I wanted to go overboard this time as once you start playing with power, it does not end. Had I done it right in the first place, it also would not have cost me 2 full weekends and $1300.



So as for your question. First off, no. Dont get a 12. 5. Go bigger. Bigger surface = less slippage.



Second, dont look at the HP ratings of a diesel clutch. That is for the gas world. Diesel clutches are based on TQ. Keep that in mind when looking.



Thirdly, you mention you will do injectors, intake, exhaust. If you do injectors you will also need to turn the pump screw a bit to feed them. So lets look at this.



Injectors + 40

Intake and exhaust +10

Pump + 25-50 (depending on how much you adjust it).



You are now sitting at 100 HP. Not much. Now look at the tq. 100 hp is 250 +/- TQ. 400 + 250 = 650.



You just belew your $500 clutch in under a year.



As for NAPA etc, sure. If you DONT add ANY power AT ALL! Even then it will not last as long as a good quality one.



So what am I saying? I hate to say it but when it comes to clutches you get what you pay for.



I stand by my original suggestion. Only chnage would be if you think you want to play more down the road, do it right now and get a Con OFE that will allow you to go to 900 ft/lbs. If you really do not think you will just turn that screw for an extra 50 hp, then stay with the Con O.



Hope that helps.



Robert



P. S. I love my clutch now. Not a good feeling when you know you should have done something different and you have to pull the transmission out again and redo it. Also a more comforting feeling when towing in areas far from home that you have a clutch that can take the abuse.



P. P. S. As for my truck, yup. I started playing further. Could not resist. I now sit at 294/720 wheel power. Glad I did not get the "just enough" clutch!! :-laf

 

[berksbr]

Thanks Robert, Bob, and Nick for all the advice!

I plan on calling Peter from SBC in the next week or so.

Robert I really appreciate all the insight on your personal experience... it really helps to make sense of what I should do. Ill tell ya it was really hard to get a straight answer out of anybody at the local auto parts stores so I'm glad I posted my question... Gonna do it right the first time and get the SBC. Thanks again!

 

[RSchwarzli]

Glad we could help you! That's what we are here for!

Also glad someone is learning from my past stupidity! :-laf

As for NAPA, autozone, etc, you have to remember they:

1- most times are not car people and only know what their system tells them. If the system tells them the clutch is made with ground alien bones from crashed UFOs, that's what they will tell you!

2- many times payed by commission. What would you do? Say it will not work and now not get a $500 sale?

3- don't know their parts are largley sources from china and less durabilty. They may have an idea, but no clue how much less durable.

4- don't understand diesels or the performance nature if them so they really are in over their heads.


This is why the TDR exists so strong! Lol

Robert

 

[HHhuntitall]

Ditto on Robert's scenario, too. I've had several, a few up around 300hp, and a few I've put clutches in. Ironically, I'm doing the NV4500 Swap in my '93 late this or early next week. I intend on ordering a Southbend TODAY!! (meant to do it yesterday... guess that means I'm doing it next week..... ) I picked up the Blumenthal's kit Monday. Robert did fail to mention, for precaution's sake, don't lug your Dodge when you're loaded! This will hammer on the G360 5 speed in your truck and cause it to come apart! Even a slight horsepower increase can injure it, so I've found. There's also the need to overfill those trannies for proper lubrication. A quick search here on the forum will give you a ton of info on rebuilding and taking care of your Getrag G360. If your adding power, I highly suggest you research it. Robert has a lot of experience in that area, as well as several other members who like to really work their trucks.....



Oh, and hey, welcome to the Dark Side! (of the smoke cloud that is!!)

 

[RSchwarzli]

VERY good point! Keep RPM above 1600 and DO NOT LUG THE transmission! It will not like you!



All very good points! Listen to HH'tail!

 

[Coalsmoke]

Agreed, definitely go SBC. Consider all the work involved in the Re and Re, the extra $250 for a clutch that is in a league of its own is not even worth a second thought.

 

[berksbr]

Since everyone has been sooooo helpful, I have two more questions...



What do you mean by "don't lug the transmission"??





AND



Has anyone heard of "pensacola diesel", Pensacola Fuel Injection | Worlds #1 Diesel Rebuilder. This is where I found a set of mild injectors (25-40 horsepower) for $229 (all six). Does anyone have an opinion on whether I should replace with Bosch stock injectors or have a good recommendation for a "mild" injector (does Bosch make a mild injector for the gen-12) that would give me a little more horsepower without destroying my transmission... . (hence the reason I want to know what "don't lug the transmission" means... )





Thanks Again

 

[RSchwarzli]

Well, as for the injectors, I assume you live in the SE? I have not heard of them. I am going to guess they are a more local vs a National thing. Does not mean they are bad, just not as wide known.



As for lugging, that would be defined as lots of power at low RPM. The power stroke in the trucks create a power spike. When at low rpm this power stroke can be felt as a large vibration, or a growl if you listen to the transmission. When you are at higher rpm, the motor is smoother.



If you lug the transmission (wide open throttle at 1400 rpm for expamle as you now have the power to do it) the power spike loads the transmission and moves you forward. The rpm is now so slow the power goes away. The truck now slows down. Then the power stroke comes. POWERS SPIKE! Load the transmission.



Do that 1400 times a minute and your bearings now hate you!



Now add the vibrations of a slow rpm and that further rattles everything. This is called destructive resonance harmonics if memory serves. It is a gutbag (getrag) killer.





That is lugging a transmission.

 

[HHhuntitall]

Ironically, I installed a set of Pensacola injectors in an '01 yesterday... . I've bought close to a dozen sets of injectors from them so far, and all have been upgrades... . I think I've used three sets of 12 valves in the last three months. The only complaint I have had is on my personal truck. I don't know if the pump has dropped a cylinder, a rocker has backed off, or if the injector has headed south, but the dang thing misses and I hate it. I hope to pull it apart tonight or tomorrow. The '01 I did yesterday runs better than ever, as have all the others I've done. I even put a set in a 6. 9 Ferd a few weeks back, and they've been running better than stock. The mileage still sucks, but it's better... ...



I don't feel comfortable saying they're good, as there is no test of time, yet, but they've been good to deal with SO FAR. If there is a bad a injector in my '97, we'll see how they handle it. That will tell us a lot..... sorry I can't tell you more.



As for a performance injector, I don't believe there are any upgraded for the earlier VE pump, 89-93, from Bosch. There are many available, though, from other sources. If memory serves me correctly, the injectors are dimensionally the same from 91. 5(intercooled) to 93 as from 94-98. 5. And the early 89-91. 5 have adapters to use the later injector available from Bosch. I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong... . :-laf

 

[RSchwarzli]

You are right. 7 vs 9 mm injectors.