A new approach to the well known front end problem

[Charlie Lawhon]

Back to my original font. We have a 2019 Ram. I don't think it drives or handles much different than my '97. It is smoother is all.

I'm guessing you don't drive or use the 2nd gen that much? I've never seen one with 40k miles on it even with pawpaw driving it that didn't have between 1/4 and half turn of the steering wheel of slack in it. I am not just an owner, I specialized in service on the 2G for a long time during production years.

Even moog ball joints they look like they will fall apart in 40k miles if you Jack it up by the frame on every single 2500 and 3500 that rolled off the line.

As far as driving in general compared to a late model they drive nothing alike in my opinion. The new ones drive like the $60-75k they cost and respectively the 2G drives like the sticker price of that time.

 

[Tractorat]

I havent driven a new one. But my 02 was never really bad. And since I had the steering box replaced a couple of years ago it steers great.

 

[GAmes]

I'm guessing you don't drive or use the 2nd gen that much? I've never seen one with 40k miles on it even with pawpaw driving it that didn't have between 1/4 and half turn of the steering wheel of slack in it. I am not just an owner, I specialized in service on the 2G for a long time during production years.

Even moog ball joints they look like they will fall apart in 40k miles if you Jack it up by the frame on every single 2500 and 3500 that rolled off the line.

As far as driving in general compared to a late model they drive nothing alike in my opinion. The new ones drive like the $60-75k they cost and respectively the 2G drives like the sticker price of that time.

I guess you don't read well. My truck is quickly approaching 1.4 million miles. I just returned from a fishing trip pulling my 5th wheel with a bass boat behind it. 23,000 pounds and 65 ft long. None of what you say is true of my vehicle. You are entitled to your opinion about new trucks, but IMO they aren't that special.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I guess you don't read well. My truck is quickly approaching 1.4 million miles. I just returned from a fishing trip pulling my 5th wheel with a bass boat behind it. 23,000 pounds and 65 ft long. None of what you say is true of my vehicle. You are entitled to your opinion about new trucks, but IMO they aren't that special.

I saw the 1.4 million but you didn't say miles. We have the 95 we are building now and it has 350k miles driven by an old farmer in a local environment that never pulled anything with it but a hay fork and doesn't hardly go the speed limit. The truck was falling completely apart, frame cracked in several places, cab cracked in several places (seen after being stripped to bare metal and no interior, total dismantle).

I've worked on several that had over 400k and we deemed them unsafe for public road ways. If you expect me to believe you have one with 1.4 million miles on the original frame and cab and have only put 3 sets of ball joints in it I can't help but laugh.

I've worked on hundreds of 2G's as my family has been a dealer since 1978 and still in business today. What you're saying is impossible and if for some reason you have one duct taped together please for the love of God and public safety park it. There is not 1 single thing about that, that is not dangerous not only to yourself but everyone around you on the road.

 

[JR]

Charlie, you must not of ever heard of the high mileage club. 400k isn't all that high of mileage for these trucks. I could find examples that "aren't safe for public roads" at 100k miles. Depends on how they are maintained.

Gary is the real deal. If you hang around long enough you'll figure that out for yourself.

 

[GAmes]

If you expect me to believe you have one with 1.4 million miles on the original frame and cab and have only put 3 sets of ball joints in it I can't help but laugh.

Then laugh your way to the loonie bin because that is the facts.

For those of you that don't recognize this thread as an attempt to get free advertising, and would prefer rack and pinion, it has been done. Total cost less than $300.

https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/...510747-proper-steering-setup-2wd-finally.html

 

[GAmes]

What you're saying is impossible and if for some reason you have one duct taped together please for the love of God and public safety park it. There is not 1 single thing about that, that is not dangerous not only to yourself but everyone around you on the road.

Forgot to respond to this blarney. Explain to me why I haven't been parked by DOT during the level one inspections I've passed while hauling commercially.

 

[GAmes]

If you hang around long enough you'll figure that out for yourself.

I doubt he will. He isn't shown as a TDR member and he'll be gone when he finds he doesn't have a market.

 

[BigPapa]

I'll also tell you that Gary is legit.

My '95 had 375K on it when it was totalled and I had only replaced all four ball joints once.

My '98 is currently at 301K and the original ball joints were replaced at 200K.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I doubt he will. He isn't shown as a TDR member and he'll be gone when he finds he doesn't have a market.

Just as I figured. This is just another BS forum with a bunch of unrealistic haters. I don't care if I sell anything or not. This would just be a Mickey mouse amount of money if anyone wanted it. I just wanted to offer some race technology to guys that love their trucks and want to enjoy them on a different level than some crappy bilstein shocks and half ton springs placed in a disaster of a factory designed front suspension.

And I'm lmao at a 2nd generation dodge pickup with over a million miles being able to drag anything heavy enough to need a log book and a big boy license. I design heavy equipment as the owner of an OEM. I did a little over a million miles in a real truck when I was younger so I'm familiar with all that OTR/DOT chicken coup stuff. I'm also an instrument rated commercial helicopter pilot and held a competition driver's license for a long time.

There is NO WAY you're running on original equipment in regards to the frame and cab/body. I'll grant you that drive line can be rebuilt over and over. Those vehicles were not properly designed to endure OTR work first of all. If you have a gooseneck or 5th wheel attached to those trucks for local contractor work, or retired folks touring with an RV there is a limit to the number of oscillation cycles the parent material will sustain. I realize people "hotshot" OTR with them and that shortens the ratio of overall miles on the clock to oscillation cycles before metallurgical fatigue sets in.

We use a program called solid works to design new products with. Within the software there are algorithms that take into account parent metal type, shape, thickness, and any thermal treatment from annealing to strengthening or simply stress relief heating then it verifies the design structural integrity and begins running dynamic loading evaluation in multiple aspects based on engineering design for intended loading including static loading to failure on through dynamic shock loading and resonant oscillation and will combine them all to see how one effects the other and what the earliest failure will be and why and also what the best case scenario will be.

I work with that stuff for a living. You guys can tell stories to each other all you want but you're not going to get me to entertain the thought of your proposal without saying you just have the original engine block, transmission housing and rear end housing that match your title and odometer with over a million miles. I've been involved with metal works most of my life. I love those trucks too but damn, they aren't THAT good.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I'll also tell you that Gary is legit.

My '95 had 375K on it when it was totalled and I had only replaced all four ball joints once.

My '98 is currently at 301K and the original ball joints were replaced at 200K.

Did you ever think to Jack it up periodically and wiggle the tire by hand and look at the joints? The oldest set I think I ever saw was almost 100k and I could have hit them with a small hammer and made the spindle fall out of the joint jacked up with the tires off the ground.

 

[AEdelheit]

Just as I figured. This is just another BS forum with a bunch of unrealistic haters.

Actually its a forum with a bunch of fellow Cummins owners that have been around these trucks a long time as are cautions of fairly tales and unicorns. Perhaps you should stand back and look at it from our point of view, you are a new guy that comes in saying you have a solution to a problem that most people dont have, wont give any details and act like your gods gift to all things metal. Yup thats a huge red flag and then you tell people there trucks are crap and basically call them liars for having high miles on there trucks, its a pretty terrible way for you to make an introduction.

Now I work in the suspension industry and rather curious what your magical solution is but am expecting little as you come across as someone who talks big but likely doesnt deliver. Obviously I dont know you and would love to be proven wrong but you are not doing yourself any favors right now, there are many members here who are engineers, mechanics and what not so do not underestimate the knowledge on this forum even if it goes against your own beliefs or experiences.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Charlie, you must not of ever heard of the high mileage club. 400k isn't all that high of mileage for these trucks. I could find examples that "aren't safe for public roads" at 100k miles. Depends on how they are maintained.

Gary is the real deal. If you hang around long enough you'll figure that out for yourself.

In aviation if I let my helicopter set in a hanger without flying it for 12 years and have all the annual service and inspections done the aircraft is considered by the FAA and NTSB to be worn out to the point it must be totally dismantled and remanufactured on the last day of the month of the 12th calendar or 2200 operational hours which ever comes first. That is maintenance. At some point every piece including the core airframe is no longer usable. There's a good reason why. I made a brief example in a previous post.

Maintenance is key, yes, but at some point continuing forward becomes stupidity. Be proud of your truck but realize there are things you guys don't understand that will get someone killed by wearing ultra high mileage on your sleeve like a badge of honor.

 

[GAmes]

I work with that stuff for a living. You guys can tell stories to each other all you want but you're not going to get me to entertain the thought of your proposal without saying you just have the original engine block, transmission housing and rear end housing that match your title and odometer with over a million miles. I've been involved with metal works most of my life. I love those trucks too but damn, they aren't THAT good.

I never claimed to have the original engine or transmission. My G56 conversion is chronicled in issue 69 of the TDR after going through 12 NV4500 repairs. Also in the archives. https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/mission-g56-pictures.221115/
My original engine is in the archives also https://www.turbodieselregister.com/threads/dissecting-an-800-000-mile-engine.231337/
The D80, however has only had a couple sets of seals replaced. This picture was taken four days ago at a truck stop. It is obvious by your comments that you are ignorant of the durability of the 2nd gen Dodge. You talking down to me and those who responded in my defense and calling me a liar only decrease your credibility. Claiming to be a helicopter pilot doesn't impress me. One of my instructors in flight school once told me he could teach a monkey how to fly, but couldn't teach one to talk on the radio. When I retired from the Army I was an AH-64 maintenance test pilot flight examiner (MTFE). I doubt you have the gonads to question my integrity to my face.

 

[GAmes]

In aviation if I let my helicopter set in a hanger without flying it for 12 years and have all the annual service and inspections done the aircraft is considered by the FAA and NTSB to be worn out to the point it must be totally dismantled and remanufactured on the last day of the month of the 12th calendar or 2200 operational hours which ever comes first. That is maintenance. At some point every piece including the core airframe is no longer usable. There's a good reason why. I made a brief example in a previous post.

I didn't continue to fly after I retired, so I don't know if what you say holds water. I do know I flew med-evac helicopters in the 80s that were built in the 60s. Their drive trains and engines had been replaced due to Army time change requirements, but the airframes had nothing done to them. My stick buddy from flight school owns a Mooney Ranger that is considerably older than 12 years as well. It has never been "totally dismantled and remanufactured ".

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Actually its a forum with a bunch of fellow Cummins owners that have been around these trucks a long time as are cautions of fairly tales and unicorns. Perhaps you should stand back and look at it from our point of view, you are a new guy that comes in saying you have a solution to a problem that most people dont have, wont give any details and act like your gods gift to all things metal. Yup thats a huge red flag and then you tell people there trucks are crap and basically call them liars for having high miles on there trucks, its a pretty terrible way for you to make an introduction.

Now I work in the suspension industry and rather curious what your magical solution is but am expecting little as you come across as someone who talks big but likely doesnt deliver. Obviously I dont know you and would love to be proven wrong but you are not doing yourself any favors right now, there are many members here who are engineers, mechanics and what not so do not underestimate the knowledge on this forum even if it goes against your own beliefs or experiences.

I didn't call anyone's truck crap. And yes I get what your saying. It makes me no difference either way if no one wants anything new. I don't really care to go through the effort of producing and packaging something of such a small financial margin that would never be a mass sale.

I have multiple US patient's already. I have a thing for collecting them. If I can do something that can cover the cost of the process of getting another one and break even our put a little coin in my pocket I'm cool with sharing. I'm not a suspension company. This just came up on a bar napkin and we've been testing it for a few weeks now and the truck carves corners better than I ever imagined with that lead bullet up front.

We have quite a bit of negative camber = on both sides and a lot of caster adjustment plus a little toe in to correct the straight line contact patch from the -C and solve some of the under steer we ran into. That's not the magic but should be enough if you're in suspension to tell I'm not just some idiot. You can't just run down to NTB and get that setup lol

 

[AH64ID]

When I retired from the Army I was an AH-64 maintenance test pilot flight examiner (MTFE).

I know we’ve chatted about some of this before, but why not a fun tangent.

When did you retire? Recall who gave you your ME ride?

I haven’t done ME duties in a 64 for a few years, but just finished 60M training and am now up as a 60A/L/M ME. Still a bit to go until retirement.

Oh, and we gave a 60 on the ramp that was built in 78. Still flying...

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I didn't continue to fly after I retired, so I don't know if what you say holds water. I do know I flew med-evac helicopters in the 80s that were built in the 60s. Their drive trains and engines had been replaced due to Army time change requirements, but the airframes had nothing done to them. My stick buddy from flight school owns a Mooney Ranger that is considerably older than 12 years as well. It has never been "totally dismantled and remanufactured ".

Without the reman at TBO you are no longer airworthy LEGALLY. Guys risk it all the time. Pretty cool you were med-evac. That's my goal for my last operation before the doc pulls my medical

 

[AH64ID]

Without the reman at TBO you are no longer airworthy LEGALLY. Guys risk it all the time.

Want to enlighten us as to what TBO was ignored?

and why you think the Army wound risk it?

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Want to enlighten us as to what TBO was ignored?

and why you think the Army wound risk it?

I did it the hard way. I'm all civilian baby. I have no idea what the military does but I'd hope to hell they aren't short changing our troups