Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) A Visit to the Dark Side

[Eventer]

My early 2001 truck is nearly paid off and the Minister of Finance and All Things Purchased has given me the OK to purchase my first BOMB, a power box followed by a 4" exhaust later in the summer.



After reading close to a hundred posts I have decided on one of the following :



1) Edge Comp or

2) Ultimate Power Module (UPM)



I understand they are both made by Edge Products but the UPM has slightly different software that gives it more HP and torque at any given level. I am leaning toward Edge's products because the general consensus is that Edge stands behind their product in case of problems.



Any preference of one over the other? Is there somehting else out there with in-cab adjustability?



I like the idea of being able to adjust the settings from the cab, hence a leaning toward the Comp or UPM. I have seen several people mount it in the ashtray. Are any special mounts required for this location? Where else have people mounted their boxes?



I want to support TDR advertisers so if anyone has kind words about a vendor (especially one near the KC area), I would like to hear from them. I would rather pay a slightly higher price and support a TDR advertiser or member than save a few bucks.



I do some towing with my two horse gooseneck. It weighs in at about 9,000 pounds with 2 horses and tack. I have noticed a definite need for more power on long hills. (At least that is the excuse I gave the MoFaATP. ) I have to downshift to maintain speed and keep EGTs below 1,200.



My truck's engine is currently stock with 113,000 miles on the odometer. I have EGT and boost gauges installed. I also have a K&N filter to replace the stock filter. I have the following concerns:



1) Will the stock lift pump (replaced under warranty at 94,000 miles) hold the additional fuel being burned? Would a replacement like the FASS be better?



2) After reading many posts, it seems like the fuel pump is a crap-shoot as to whether it survives or not? At what levels would I be safe with additional power?



3) My clutch (6-speed NV5600) seems to still be holding well. I noticed some members on the board had their clutches hold up to level 3. What is everyone elses experiences?



4) I would also eventually like to install some injectors. Any problems with interfering with what I have described above?



5) How long to install? Pictures would be extremely helpful. (BTW - I have Edge's installation manual - version011305). It looks fairly complete. )



Anything else I have forgotten?



Thanks in advance. The dark side awaits...

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I like the idea of being able to adjust the settings from the cab, hence a leaning toward the Comp or UPM. I have seen several people mount it in the ashtray. Are any special mounts required for this location? Where else have people mounted their boxes?



I mounted mine above my 5er brake controller:



#ad




I do some towing with my two horse gooseneck. It weighs in at about 9,000 pounds with 2 horses and tack. I have noticed a definite need for more power on long hills. (At least that is the excuse I gave the MoFaATP. ) I have to downshift to maintain speed and keep EGTs below 1,200.



Dunno what my EGT was before the Comp, but towing with a GCVW of around 15,000 Lbs, my EGT with the Comp on 5x5 runs 1200 degrees or less. I typically tow our load in OD, at about 60-65 MPH, even in 7% grades, as long as traffic and road conditions permit. That's about 1800 RPM with a 3. 55 rearend and a 2x4 truck.



My truck's engine is currently stock with 113,000 miles on the odometer. I have EGT and boost gauges installed. I have the following concerns:



1) Will the stock lift pump (replaced under warranty at 94,000 miles) hold the additional fuel being burned? Would a replacement like the FASS be better?



You will definitely want some form of fuel system upgrade - I use a Carter pusher pump installed back close to the fuel tank - all fuel lines are stock, and I personally see NO need for larger or fancier ones - my fuel PSI is measured right at the VP-44, and maintains about 10 PSI at the heaviest load or Comp setting.



2) After reading many posts, it seems like the fuel pump is a crap-shoot as to whether it survives or not? At what levels would I be safe with additional power?



Usually, if the VP-44 survives the FIRST 100 miles, you have no worries - at ANY power level, on the Comp or similar box.





3) My clutch (6-speed NV5600) seems to still be holding well. I noticed some members on the board had their clutches hold up to level 3. What is everyone elses experiences?



My stock clutch lasted about 2 years in mostly towing scenarios - never spared the Comp, used it on 5X5 consistently on steeper grades - it finally started slippng, and was replaced last summer with a LUK Pro Gold Cerametallic - no further problems - you WILL need a clutch upgrade, maybe sooner, maybe later - but you WILL need one!



4) I would also eventually like to install some injectors. Any problems with interfering with what I have described above?



I'll let you know in a few weeks - Don M F1 1. 5's are on my horizon, combined with a 4 inch exhaust system from Rip Rook.



5) How long to install? Pictures would be extremely helpful. (BTW - I have Edge's installation manual - version011305). It looks fairly complete. )



Installation took about 2 hours as I recall - but I'm fussier than most - absolutely NO problems.



Anything else I have forgotten?



You will also need a more efficient air filter setup, otherwise, the first hard pull with a Comp on 5x5 will likely suck the element outta your stock element...

 

[Eventer]

Gary, Thanks for your repsonses.



I edited my original post. I forgot to add that I have a K&N filter installed.



I had not heard of the Carter pusher pump. Do you have any more details on the pump and/or installation?



My biggest fear about adding power right now is seeing the VP-44 die and be stuck with a huge repair bill that I can't afford.



How did you attach the comp to the knee bolster or is it jammed in between the trailer brake controller and the knee bolster? My brake controller is in the hole (trash can) in front of the stick shift.



I plan on starting out on 1x1 and slooowly working my way up the scale.



How hard was the install. Could someone of average mechanical skills (OK, I'm almost mechanically declined) do this?



Thanks again!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here's a pointer to my pusher install:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123299



I use velcro to hold the Comp controller in position - and it IS wedged nicely between the brake controller and dash panel as well.



As to fears about the VP-44, all you can do is make sure you maintain reasonable positive fuel pressure to it, keep the fuel clean - a good quality fuel additive used regularly should help, and that's about it, it either lives or dies, and they do THAT on their own REGARDLESS of mods, so no point in worrying about it!



The Comp OR pusher install are easy enough, and require minimal skills or tools - but the help of a local truck owner with experience helps too - maybe some on this board can help?

 

[I-6DZL]

If you're worried about a repair bill that you cannot afford, then you probably should just choose injectors. Get EDM 1. 5's and be happy. When you can afford the possibility of having a vp44 failure get a comp box. The vp44 can be a strange creature, some last, some don't.

Get rid of the K&n and replace it with a Bhaf (see sig for my part # from a fleetguard filter dealer)



Good luck

Curtis

 

[Eventer]

I just heard about EDM 1. 5s. Do you have some more information? How do they compare with other injectors (i. e. DD1, DD2, etc)?



I do like the idea of in-cab adjustability. Would injectors be safer because they don't play with timing or fuel or both?



Thanks.

 

[Alphacowboy]

dont know if you read it... but here is some pointers... https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124463



if you have an aftermarket deck... .



#ad

 

[tractorface]

some advice

I am going to say some unpopular stuff. Things no one seems to tell you before you start bombing.



You will ned to increase airflow both in and out. To do this at a reasonable cost your truck will be LOUDER by a lot. If this bothers you leave your rig stock.

Power is addictive, I said all I want is an EZ, just a litle more. BS, once on the slope it gets slippery fast. Like Billy Idol once said "More, More, more" :-laf

The VP may or may not last as others have said. Many hear what they want to hear when bombing, but the reality is many fail, may or may not be related to bombing but the money you spent on bombs could have gone to getting you running again.



With that said I love my truck, it is a blast to drive and I am very mild. Looking to spend More $$ to go faster, hoping it stops with injectors, afraid it will lead to twins one day :{

 

[nutter3]

Any preference of one over the other? Is there somehting else out there with in-cab adjustability?

TST PM3 has in-cab adjustability. I like mine so far.

 

[LaserBob]

Talk to FloorIt, TDR member in Lawrence, he will steer you right.



LaserBob

 

[darkhorse]

I just heard about EDM 1. 5s. Do you have some more information? How do they compare with other injectors (i. e. DD1, DD2, etc)?



I do like the idea of in-cab adjustability. Would injectors be safer because they don't play with timing or fuel or both?



Thanks.

EDM's are the premium way to go in injectors. Some people prefer the way they respond better than the box but the box is less expensive & easier for most folks to do. The difference lies in the fact that injectors increase the rate of injection while the box increases the duration of the injection. Since you have the ETH with the higher compression, I suggest the DD UFM over the Edge for it's less aggressive advance curve.

 

[IC Smoke]

a little info, gauges FIRST!

then air box/exhaust do the simple stuff first but dont forget you want to monitor your lift pump so you can make sure fuel is getting to the Very Precious VP-44

I put my "Comp" in the ash try and like it ALOT that way someone looking in only views a trailer brake control and gauges so it appears "stock" (attached pic)

With the box you will put more fuel to the motor but the stock injectors will only spray so much so you really wont be able to turn the box up real high (ARE YOU GOING TO TAP THE WIRE?)

Wire tap- do a search and you will read TONS of info!!

And with any mod dont forget a TRANS!!! I should have went and got a DTT trans (no wars! just personal perfrence) before the box but I dont use the box that often and only for short periods.



BOMBS AWAY!

Ian

 

[tractorface]

Nice install

Don't forget increased fuel delivery needs with anything much more than an EZ. Lots of ways to go here. Pusher, Fass, Rasp, etc.

 

[Eventer]

Thanks!

I would just like to thank everyone who responded to my questions.



I spoke with Floor It (John Isaacs) last night and ordered an Edge Comp. It should be in very soon. Thanks John!



I understand the need for improved air intake (I have a K&N filter installed. ), a fuel pressure gauge (any suggestions?), improved fuel delivery and exhaust. Those are all on the list for soonest purchase and installation. In the meanwhile I plan on taking it very easy until the above is done.



Once again thanks everyone. TDR members are the greatest!

 

[darkhorse]

If you see very dusty conditions very often, you might consider replacing the K&N with an AFE proguard 7 or a BHAF. The Westach electronic fuel pressure guage is probably the easiest & least expensive option.

 

[rkressg]

Throw that K&N in the trash and get a better air filter. The BHAF is an inexpensive alternative. There are also better alts out there.



The K&N does not filter fine enough particulate (if you look at your turbo, you will see the dirt on the compressor wheel) and the oil will destroy your MAP.



If you have had a K&N for a while, you will want to replace your MAP. I will guarantee that it is shot (100% failure rate with K&N). They should not be very expensive from a Cummins dealer, if you go to dodge, mark it up by 400%.



-Rich

 

[Eventer]

darkhorse & rkressg,



I drive on at least 6 miles of dirt roads daily. I have had the K&N for probably 40,000 miles. I will look at the AFE filter when I see FloorIt next week about my new fueling box. Looks like a MAP sensor is in the cards. Thanks for the input!

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"Throw that K&N in the trash and get a better air filter. The BHAF is an inexpensive alternative. There are also better alts out there.



The K&N does not filter fine enough particulate (if you look at your turbo, you will see the dirt on the compressor wheel) and the oil will destroy your MAP. "



Watch out for those extreme statements - sure, SOME K&N users have had oil and dirt related issues - but so have some had issues with the STOCK paper OEM filters!



Here's a pic of the intake to my turbo, after 32,000 miles with a K&N - the turbo on my '91 after 120,000 miles looked the same way with it's K&N:



#ad




Where's all that dirt? don't be confused - those darker areas are merely shadows, and I can provide both oil analysis and white cloth swabbings to further substantiate the effectiveness of at least *my* experience in over 150,000 miles usage with K&N. Do any here REALLY think my MAP is likely to look any worse than that turbo inlet does - "nasty" K&N oil or not? I recently DID switch to a BHAF - partly as a comparison test vs the K&N, and also because upcoming mods will probably outpace the ability of my current K&N to maintain adequate flow.



But here is a recommendation for an added mod for K&N users on these later trucks, drilling the airbox for better airflow than the restrictive stock intake duct:



#ad

 

[rkressg]

I unfortunately do not have the specs on hand, but the filtration specifications for the K&N filter are not in-line with what Cummins requests.



Remember, it is your engine, if you want to potentially cause premature wear on your internals, go ahead. He asked for advise, I gave what what I thought to be useful. There are better alternatives out there, I just suggested that a different one be tried.



Also, find me a MAP sensor that has still properly works after using a K&N for an extended period of time, especially one that has been cleaned and reoiled. I have not seen one yet that still works after 50,000m with a K&N (I work on a few engines here and there ). Hey, maybe you have an exceptionally good MAP sensor. It could be the

weather in Pittsburgh that destroys them; I can only tell you what I have seen and know.



-Rich

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I unfortunately do not have the specs on hand, but the filtration specifications for the K&N filter are not in-line with what Cummins requests. "



LAST I knew, Cummins spec'd air filter efficiency at 91%, K&N typically delivers 95% - 4% better than Cummins specifies, and typical paper element filters run around 97%...



So if that added 2% the paper filters deliver, along with a shorter lifespan, is a factor in your decision, ya makes yer choice and pays yer $$$...



But like I said, I've used K&N's for over 150,000 miles on cummins engines, and another 50,000 miles or so in a '85 Corvette and '98 Camaro SS - NEVER the slightest problem!



Using the visual cleanliness, as well as oil analysis, it WILL be interesting to see if the BHAF paper setup is capable of any better cleanliness than what the K&N has delivered for so many miles...