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Ace of Spades.... another bedtime story? (Part 1)

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This is intentioned as a sobering and well intentioned thought... ...



Q: Daddy, why did we have to attack Iraq?

A: Because they had weapons of mass destruction.



Q: But the UN inspectors didn't find any weapons of mass destruction.

A: That's because the Iraqis were hiding them.



Q: And that's why we invaded Iraq?

A: Yes. Invasions always work better than inspections.



Q: But after we invaded them, we STILL didn't find any weapons of mass

destruction, did we?

A: That's because the weapons are so well hidden. Don't worry, the

occupying forces will find something, probably right before the 2004

election.



Q: Why did Iraq want all those weapons of mass destruction?

A: To use them in a war against their enemies, silly.



Q: I'm confused. If they had all those weapons that they planned to

use in a war, then why didn't they use any of those weapons when the US

and Britain went to war against them?

A: Well, obviously they didn't want anyone to know they had those

weapons, so in order to confuse us they chose to die by the thousands

rather than defend themselves by using any of the weapons of mass

destruction.



Q: That doesn't make sense. Why would they choose to die if they had

all those big weapons with which they could have fought back?

A: Iraq is in the Middle East. It's a totally different culture. It's

not supposed to make any sense to us in the West.



Q: I don't know about you, but I don't think they had any of those

weapons President Bush said they did.

A: Well, you know, it doesn't really matter whether or not they had

weapons of mass destruction. President Bush had another good reason to

launch a pre-emptive strike against Iraq anyway.



Q: And what was that?

A: Even if Iraq didn't have weapons of mass destruction, Saddam

Hussein was a cruel and vicious dictator, which is another good reason to

invade his country.



Q: Why? What does a cruel dictator do that makes it okay to invade his

country?

A: Well, for one thing, he tortured and killed his own people.



Q: Kind of like what they do in China?

A: Don't go comparing China to Iraq. China is a good economic partner,

where millions of people work for low wages in sweatshops to help US

corporations achieve a high-profit margin. That helps all Americans.



Q: So if a country lets its people be exploited for American corporate

gain, it's a good country, even if that country tortures and kills its

own people?

A: Right.



Q: Why were people in Iraq being tortured and killed?

A: For political crimes, mostly, like criticizing the government.

People who criticized the government in Iraq were sent to prison and

tortured

or killed.



Q: Isn't that exactly what happens in China?

A: I told you, China is different.



Q: What's the difference between China and Iraq?

A: Well, for one thing, Iraq was ruled by the Ba'ath party, while

China is a Communist country.



Q: Didn't you once tell me Communists were bad?

A: No, just Cuban Communists are bad.



Q: How are the Cuban Communists bad?

A: Well, for one thing, people who criticize the government in Cuba

are sent to prison and tortured.



Q: Like in Iraq?

A: Exactly.



Q: And like in China, too?

A: I told you, China's a good economic partner. Cuba, on the other

hand, is not.



Q: How come Cuba isn't a good economic partner?

A: Well, you see, back in the early 1960s, our government passed laws

that made it illegal for Americans to trade or do any business with

Cuba until they stopped being Communists and started being good capitalists

like us.



Q: But if we repealed those laws, opened up trade with Cuba, and

started doing business with them, wouldn't that help the Cubans become

capitalists?

A: Don't be a smart-ass.



Q: I didn't think I was being one.

A: Well, anyway, they also don't have freedom of religion in Cuba.



Q: Kind of like China and the Falun Gong movement?

A: I told you, stop saying bad things about China. Anyway, Saddam

Hussein came to power through a military coup, so he's not really a

legitimate leader anyway.



Q: What's a military coup?

A: That's when a military general takes over the government of a

country by force, instead of holding free elections like we do in the United

States.



Q: Didn't the ruler of Pakistan come to power by a military coup?

A: You mean General Pervez Musharraf? Yes, he did, but Pakistan is our

friend.





 
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Ace of Spades.... another bedtime story? (Part 2)



Q: Why is Pakistan our friend if their leader is illegitimate?

A: I never said Pervez Musharraf was illegitimate.



Q: Didn't you just say a military general who comes to power by forcibly overthrowing the legitimate government of a nation is an

illegitimate leader?

A: Only Saddam Hussein. Pervez Musharraf is our friend because he

helped us invade Afghanistan and supported our invasion of Iraq. In fact, just this week the US gave him several million dollars in

foreign aid as a 'thank you' for being part of the Coalition of the Willing.



Q: Why did the US invade Afghanistan?

A: Because of what they did to us on September 11th.



Q: What did Afghanistan do to us on September 11th?

A: Well, on September 11th, nineteen men -- fifteen of them Saudi

Arabians - hijacked four airplanes and flew three of them into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, killing over 3,000 Americans.



Q: So how did Afghanistan figure into all that?

A: Afghanistan was where those bad men trained, under the oppressive rule of the Taliban.



Q: Aren't the Taliban those bad radical Islamics who chop off people's heads and hands?

A: Yes, that's exactly who they are. Not only do they chop off people's heads and hands, but they oppress women, too.



Q: But didn't President Bush give the Taliban $43 million in foreign aid in May 2001?

A: Yes, but that money was a reward because the Taliban did such a good job fighting drug smuggling.



Q: Fighting drugs? The Taliban helped with the US war on drugs?

A: Yes, the Taliban were very helpful in stopping people from growing opium poppies.



Q: How did they do such a good job?

A: Simple. If people were caught growing opium poppies, the Taliban would have their hands and heads cut off.



Q: So, when the Taliban cut off people's heads and hands for growing

flowers, that was okay, but not if they cut people's heads and hands off for other reasons?

A: Exactly. It's okay with President Bush if radical Islamic fundamentalists cut off people's hands for growing the wrong kind of

flowers, but it's cruel if they cut off people's hands for stealing bread.



Q: Don't they also cut off people's hands and heads in Saudi Arabia?

A: That's different. Afghanistan was ruled by a tyrannical patriarchy that oppressed women and forced them to wear burqas whenever they were in public, with death by stoning as the penalty for women who did not comply.



Q: Don't Saudi women have to wear burqas in public, too?

A: No, Saudi women merely wear a traditional Islamic body covering.



Q: What's the difference?

A: The traditional Islamic covering worn by Saudi women is a modest yet fashionable garment that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers. The burqa, on the other hand, is an evil tool of

patriarchal oppression that covers all of a woman's body except for her eyes and fingers.



Q: It sounds like the same thing with a different name.

A: Now, don't go comparing Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The Saudis are our friends.



Q: But I thought you said 15 of the 19 hijackers on September 11th were from Saudi Arabia.

A: Yes, but they were trained in Afghanistan.



Q: Who trained them?

A: An evil man named Osama bin Laden.



Q: Was he from Afghanistan?

A: No, he was from Saudi Arabia too. But he was a bad man, a very bad man.



Q: I seem to recall he was our friend once.

A: Yes, when the US helped Osama and the Mujahadeen repel the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan back in the 1980s.



Q: Who are the Soviets? Was that the Evil Communist Empire Ronald Reagan talked about?

A: There are no more Soviets. The Soviet Union broke up in 1990 or thereabouts, and now they have elections and capitalism like us. We call them Russians now.



Q: So the Soviets - I mean, the Russians - are now our friends?

A: Well, not really. You see, they were our friends for many years after they stopped being Soviets, but then they decided not to support our invasion of Iraq, so we're mad at them now. We're also mad at the

French and the Germans because they didn't help us invade Iraq either.

None of the three would join the Coalition of Willing.



Q: So the French and Germans are evil, too?

A: Not exactly evil, but just bad enough, for example, that we had to rename French fries and French toast to Freedom Fries and

Freedom Toast.



Q: Do we always rename foods whenever another country doesn't do what we want them to do?

A: No, we just do that to our friends. Our enemies, we invade.



Q: But wasn't Iraq one of our friends back in the 1980s?

A: Well, yes. For a while.



Q: Was Saddam Hussein the ruler of Iraq back then?

A: Yes, but at the time Saddam was fighting against Iran, which made him our friend.



Q: Why did that make him our friend?

A: Because at that time, Iran was our enemy.



Q: Isn't that when Saddam gassed the Kurds and killed them by the thousands?

A: Yes, but since Saddam was fighting against Iran, we looked the other way, to show him we were his friend.



Q: So anyone who fights against one of our enemies automatically becomes our friend?

A: Most of the time, yes.



Q: And anyone who fights against one of our friends is automatically our enemy?

A: Sometimes that's true, too. However, if American munitions companies can profit by selling weapons to both sides while the US manages not get involved in the conflict, then that is even better.



Q: Why?

A: Because war is good for the economy, which means war is good for America. Also, since God is always on America's side, anyone who opposes war is a godless un-American Communist. Do you understand

now why we attacked Iraq?



Q: I think so. We attacked Iraq because God wanted us to.



Is that correct?

A: Yes.



Q: But how do we know God wanted us to attack Iraq?

A: Well, you see, God personally speaks to President George W. Bush and advises him what to do.



Q: So basically, what you're saying is that we attacked Iraq because the president hears voices?

A. Yes! You finally understand how the world works. Now close your eyes, and go to sleep. Good night.



Q: Good night, Daddy.
 
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Place yourself and that sweet child from the bedtime story on a cruise ship in the Mediterranean with a few Islamic extremists aboard and see how well you fare!



How about that child as a sailor aboard the USS Cole in the waters of the MidEast?



Or maybe your daughter in a sidewalk cafe in Jeruslalem!



The Islamic extremist will cut your guts out and feed it to your children! Maybe not today or tomorrow, but whenever they get the opportunity.



If the doctor tells you that you have cancer and you will live longer if you allow him to cut it out, what will you do? This world is full of a cancer that wants to destroy all Westerners (Especially Americans) and Jews. I am for cutting out the cancer while we have a chance. I thank God, Bush, and every coalition soldier everyday for willing to at least try!



All you story telling pacifists can die a horrible death from the untreated cancer if you want - as for me, I'll cut it out, burn it out, or chew it out if necessary and live tomorrow!
 
This is intentioned as a sobering and well intentioned thought... ...



Sobering all right. It's a sobering reminder of when an earlier English appeaser used all kinds of convoluted rationalization to tell the world that another mass-murdering dictator should be left alone as well.



Sorry, but I won't buy that. I sat at the feet of my Grandparents while they gave me firsthand accounts of the results of appeasement. I grew up with a different set of bedside stories.



After seeing this post, I am very glad Sadaam was captured alive. It is critical for history's sake that he be tried publicly.
 
Now, Now, JWDeeming!



You should know that Chamberlain assured the English people that Hitler was NOT a concern of British people. He was purely a problem for Germany and its immediate neighbors. He had no designs on England or the US.



Just like Saddam was a concern only for the Arab world.





Why, had we stood up to Hitler a few years earlier, it may have so undermined the Japanese belief that we were to decadent and weak to defend ourselves and they would not have had the gaul to attack Perl Harbor!!

That kind of show of strength would have just spoiled their plans to rule this country!!

Yep, we should stay away from that sort of rash conduct.



Vaughn
 
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Oh no, here we go again. :-{} Sometimes I wish the oil and transmission wars were still around. At least those were trying to accomplish something. Insulting people over their political views is not going to do anything except make people mad at one another. Trust me, I learned on this one about a month ago, and the argument wasn't pretty.



I know this is the "other" forum, and if I don't like the discussions, I can ignore them, but I'm just trying to save you guys some time and grief by telling you that this is going to turn into another pointless thread.
 
Hey guys, take a timeout here :eek: or I won't even wait for the Forum moderator to pull this thread - I'd happily do it myself at the drop of a hat!



Assuming you've read the whole post (both parts1 & 2), it should be abundantly clear what I think about manipulative politicians in general. It's worthwhile remembering my opening line "just a sobering thought" - I neither support or condone any policies of appeasement. We're all (pretty much ;) ) adult when it comes right down to it and it wasn't too long ago when it was convenient for the west to turn a blind eye when it suited. If nothing else, you'll get a sneak preview of what the "creative" defence team will be alluding to... . putting even OJ's defence into perspective perhaps :rolleyes:



The underlying message was, and still is, you can deceive some of the people most of the time and, most of the people all the time, but you cannot deceive all of the people all of the time.



If there's one thing that history is pretty darn good at is proving our political masters all suffer with short-term memory loss when it suits them. :--)



JMc
 
PULL IT!



It's just another fairy tale bed-time story from a person that doesn't even have an adequate right to defend oneself in his own home without facing prison time.



How many pistols can you own in jolly old England?
 
Q: Daddy, tell me a story about the Falklands (Malvinas) conflict... .



Q: Daddy, what did a bunch of sheep do to threaten the United Kingdom?
 
Originally posted by skobylenski

Oh no, here we go again. :-{} Sometimes I wish the oil and transmission wars were still around. At least those were trying to accomplish something. Insulting people over their political views is not going to do anything except make people mad at one another. Trust me, I learned on this one about a month ago, and the argument wasn't pretty.



I know this is the "other" forum, and if I don't like the discussions, I can ignore them, but I'm just trying to save you guys some time and grief by telling you that this is going to turn into another pointless thread.



But these threads are like car wrecks on the side of the road ... you know you shouldn't look at them but just keep driving on, but you just have to look to see the bodies. Kind of like car racing and figure skating ... you watch to see the accidents. :D



As far as the politics and "friends" are concerned ... remember the US does not have any permanent friends or enemies, just permanent interests.
 
Permanent Interests

"As far as the politics and "friends" are concerned ... remember the US does not have any permanent friends or enemies, just permanent interests"



I thought that was what John was trying to show, that our interests 'sometimes' (???) change as the political players change in our system.



YOU HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU ASK FOR AS YOU MAY GET IT!!!!!



God Bless the men and women who have to go to the front (talk about changes!!!!) and PROJECT our policies/interests (ever changing) while everyone else gets to stay behind and DISCUSS :-{} .
 
Originally posted by me4osu

Q: Daddy, tell me a story about the Falklands (Malvinas) conflict... .



Q: Daddy, what did a bunch of sheep do to threaten the United Kingdom?




Hey Eric! Good to see your 10 cents! I hope things in Texas are still okay..... The simple answer to your question is "nothing" but I just heard that I could be in Warsaw Poland, during 2004 so if you're still going to be in the neighborhood, I can get you that well earned drink without the US Postal Service hijacking the shipment this time :D... .
 
Non Sequitur?

Originally posted by Jumbo Jet PULL IT!



It's just another fairy tale bed-time story from a person that doesn't even have an adequate right to defend oneself in his own home without facing prison time.

How many pistols can you own in jolly old England?




Jumbo - you have missed the point entirely... ... .



No offence intended but it is not a bedtime story - its about manipulative politicians with short-term memory loss :D when it suits... ...



BTW, the answer to your question is currently zero (legally) which is why I posted the response as "Non Sequitur". I used to legally own a variety of handguns and full bore rifles, but I, like many other shooting enthusiasts got sidellined by the politicians who were out to make a (short term) reputation for themselves - notice how I have subtly brought this back on track for you . . . . . . ?



JMc



 
Public office?

Originally posted by FATCAT As far as the politics and "friends" are concerned ... remember the US does not have any permanent friends or enemies, just permanent interests.



Fatcat - Have you ever considered the possibility of running for public office? You might surprise yourself and your constituents with your line of thinking..... !



JMc



 
Shame?

Originally posted by JPope God Bless the men and women who have to go to the front (talk about changes!!!!) and PROJECT our policies/interests (ever changing) while everyone else gets to stay behind and DISCUSS :-{} .




Jim, you nailed it! You're obviously not in public office currently but hold onto those political aspirations. . . . .

 
Make us up a bedtime story about what language might now be spoken in the UK but for good old Uncle Sam sticking his nose into a conflict that a great many people in the US tried to keep us out of telling us it was not our concern--after all Hitler really wasn't a threat to "us".



But for Bush, the world just might be taking the first steps down the path Chamberlain tried to take the British down in 1939.

Some here might well be giving thanks to Churchill (for not listening to Chamberlain)and Rosevelt and NOW Bush for not listening to the anti war bunch.



BTW, I hate those automatic transmission threads and accordingly I never go there; wonder why people come to these threads and then yell about how bad they are. Maybe I should go to those transmission threads and raise a beef about how much I dislike them:-{}



Vaughn:D
 
I love these threads and am certainly glad to hear that God all Mighty thinks high enough of Presedent Bush to speak to him, give him wisdom & lead him in the right direction to keep America safe.

TJ
 
Originally posted by JohnMcIntyre





Hey Eric! Good to see your 10 cents! I hope things in Texas are still okay..... The simple answer to your question is "nothing" but I just heard that I could be in Warsaw Poland, during 2004 so if you're still going to be in the neighborhood, I can get you that well earned drink without the US Postal Service hijacking the shipment this time :D... .



John,

I won't be taking any more overseas trips as I have hired on with one of our clients who is domestic only. The wife and I will be coming over to visit the Welshman in a year or so. I will contact you when we know more.



When you go to Warsaw, there is a nice new hotel not too far from the airport called "Airport Hotel Okecie". It has a nice bar, restauracja, and you can negotiate a corporate rate. We usually paid around 90. 00 euro. The novotel with less quality rooms was around 140. 00 euro.



Enjoy.
 
Now this is cool-the lowly redneck Diesel club from the hated USA is about to have an"International Affair. " on their message board!!

LOL:D



We got the BOMBs. So the rest can:-{} all they want!!!
 
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