Additives for LSD........Real tests?

[Kiohio]

Have any REALLY been tested, with an outside lab etc.

Has anyone tried their own test? Or been adding stuff and STILL lost the IP seals.

I run 1 or 2 8oz bottles of 2stroke (because it's there) and Power Service.

No problems yet but I only have around 2k worth of LSD on my engine.



KO

 

[Greenleaf]

2-Stroke , outbaord engine oil has been discussed till the cows returned and it has been deemed A-OK ... . that and Power Services. I would think that the oil alone would be more than adequate. The PS will tend to clean out/off and carbon/soot what-have-you, in my opinion.



Another would be soy oil additive. Costs much more then 2-Stroke. I use it here at the school. Stinks to high glory though. It lubricates AND cleans the fuel system. Probably cleans more than you'd want it too.





BTW 2-Stroke/ Outboard is the only oil designed to be burned IN the engine. Cummins "sez" that dyno lube oil CAN be mixed to your fuel up to a SMALL % with out any ills. Our 12 valve owners manual outlays the mix with various grades of fuel. #1,#2, K1, Jet "A", "B" etc. etc. etc. (Cummins Publication # 3810205)



I use 8oz of PS and 8oz of 2-Stroke per 15 gallons of #2

 

[JLEONARD]

Knock on wood. . been running USLD since fall... probably 10 K miles... using additives. Some FPPF, a bottle of Power Service, now I'm using "Summitt" because it was free, and I've not seen any leaks... knock on wood again, throwing some salt over my shoulder, etc. , etc.

 

[Leper]

The PO of my truck had a bunch of Amsoil fuel additive and I have been using that. He stated that he had used it after his IP blew a seal.

 

[JFaughn]

Looking for those tests ?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

This is just one of those products you have to buy on faith - and HOPE it does at least SOME of the good things claimed for it. Few, if any, random owners have the know-how, equipment or facilities to do meaningful tests of fuel additives - and God only knows that the occasional user statements that they have been "using brand XXX for 5 years with no problems" is pretty meaningless - since far MORE owners use NOTHING for "many years", and also have no problems...



Personally, I use a 50/50 mix of marine synthetic blend 2-stroke oil mixed with Power Service - about a quart of each to a tank of fuel...

 

[Kiohio]

Wow, I guess more guys than I thought were using the same basic thing I am.

I'm not claiming any genius on this :-laf I saw it here and copied you all.

At least if I have trouble, I'll be in good company :-laf



I've seen the KDP parties, maybe we should have "reseal" parties...



KO

 

[Greenleaf]

Yeah, it's going to come down to that. I'll show "how to" over at SOP VI but you gotta attend as I don't yet have satilite com-link. I think the reaseal will be required and the internal mods will be more/less the after-effect of the reseal task... ..... LOL LOL



Side note. We need a name change. S. O. P. will need to have a new "Greener" name

 

[hotram03]

I'm running the Stanadyne Lubricity formula, Real test, without around 435 miles on a tank, with it 555 miles out of a tank, driving easy. I dont have many mods either. With it I average 21. 87 MPG. Beats the S$#T out of my '03 on mileage.

 

[John Martines]

I've been running 5% Bio hoping that would lube enough. The Two-stroke oil idea aint half bad though! D@mn EPA!

 

[SAndreasen]

i also use stanadyne and gain 1. 5 mpg with it. though on my tractor the seals still went out when using stanadyne so i dont know. im going to use 15 40 in the gen one and tractor

 

[RWWinslow]

The Idaho National Laboratory (INL) has just completed an extensive study of the benefits and problems with Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) fuel. I am the principle engineer and ULSD engineer for this site. INL uses 3 to 4 million gallons of diesel fuel each year in a large over the road bus fleet, construction equipment and for standby / emergency diesel power generation. I am working to get the study released for public consumption - as soon as it is available I will make it available to this forum.



However, a quick summary will assist:



1) Seal Life.

ULSD Effects on Fuel System Seals



From the Chevron web site on 1-23-07:

Will low sulfur diesel or low aromatics diesel cause fuel system leaks?

The introduction of low sulfur diesel for on-road use in the U. S. was accompanied by fuel system leaks in a very small percentage of vehicles. Investigations into the cause of these leaks suggest that the problem was linked to the change in the aromatics content of the fuel and to seal material and age.

Diesel fuel systems contain "O-rings" and other parts made of elastomeric materials. These elastomers swell slightly when they contact diesel fuel, because they absorb aromatic compounds from the fuel. Exposure to a fuel with a lower aromatics content will result in some of the absorbed aromatics being leached out, causing the elastomer to shrink towards its original size. If the elastomer is still pliable, this shrinkage will not cause a leak. However, if age or service at higher-than-normal temperatures has caused the elastomer to loose its elasticity, a leak could occur. Vehicle owners should be aware that elastomeric parts have finite lives and should be replaced as necessary.

By itself, low sulfur or low aromatics diesel fuel does not cause fuel system leaks. They are caused by the combination of a change from higher to lower aromatics fuel and aged O-rings and elastomeric parts that have lost their elasticity. In 1994 when diesel fuel was changed to the Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD; <500 ppm sulfur) there were a number of IP seal failures due to this change over and the seal material in use at the time. In this area of the country we have not noticed any increase in IP seal failures due to changing to ULSD at either the INL or in commercial pump / diesel repair facitlities.



2) Lubricity

ULSD may not adequately lubricate the diesel engine injector pump due to the changes in refining processes. The ability of diesel fuel to lubricate injector pumps is referred to as lubricity. To compensate for this deficiency, lubricity additives are blended into the fuel at the pipeline terminal when it is loaded onto the transport truck. Lubricity is tested by the pipelines and refineries. A surprising percentage of the ULSD will meet the lubricity requirements without the use of any lubricity additives, however all ULSD is additized prior to delivery. A number of safequards exist at the terminals to ensure that the lubricity additive is added and blended into the transport.



In summary, providing additional additives will probably not help with anything. Aged seals will eventually leak whether the fuel is changed or not. The ULSD will initially clean out the fuel system so expect to change fuel filters a little bit more often.

 

[JFaughn]

RWWinslow
This is what I'm here for .
Thanks John

 

[dpuckett]

I will admit that age may be a factor, but I still think the ULSD has helped to speed the demise of many pumps. I find it coincidental that many pumps have failed with the introduction of the new fuel, some faster than others, but most pump shops have been busy as bees since late last summer and fall.



Daniel

 

[JFaughn]

I'll have to say that I cannot foresee my self not using additives , rite now Power Service , its one of the most available , that has a good rep. & price .

 

[Moab4x4]

Dino?

I just started running ~ 5% used motor oil (per DOD tests 10% up to 20% seemed OK) I notice 2 PSI more boost at full fuel. Is this likely? I have heard that motor oil has more energy in it, does it really?? I have done a couple other things too, but I previously maxed out at 32 PSI. Now I get 34+ although higher EGTs.

It is possible that the higher boost is due to something else, just curious if anyone else had experience with this.

Thx,

Ken

 

[Jgolden]

Two questions, (that may have been dealt with here, but in geezer world we don't always take note or notes).



Will new seal kits for VE pumps have all seals made from material that won't require aromatics to swell them and keep them from leaking?



Are there specific ways to add aromatics to fuel? Most additives claim a list of things, but haven't found that one.

Thanks

 

[RWWinslow]

This is interesting. . . . all the pump shops that I have talked and do business with throughout the western US have not shown any increase in business due to ULSD. Our very large bus fleet has not shown any problems except in sub zero weather with B20 fuel - and that was a filter plugging issue. California has been on ULSD for even longer and has not had problems. However, in the midwest, I have talked to a number of fleet owners who have had a host of problems with ULSD. In one fleet, the use of ULSD and bio diesel resulted in fuel lines disolving. . . . . #@$%!



The VE pump is notorious for being the first to have problems when the fuel take some drastic changes. . . . when Canadian winter fuel was changed back in the 1990's a host of VE pumps failed within a very short period of time. The Swedes also had quite a few problems with VE pumps in the early 90's when they started using ULSD. The industry is not sure if the problems are due to the differences in the fuel from the different refineries or differences in the lubricity additives put in the fuels. Lubricity additives are added at the terminals prior to shipment to the retail outlet.



Please keep me informed by private E-mail if the situation changes or you have additional information. The Idaho National Lab is following this fuel issue and we also see fuel from Texas occasionally brought in by rail car.

 

[JFaughn]

RWWinslow , When you say lines , I assume metal lines , vs. hose .
I know some involved in building designing bio diesel plants , and there have been issues with the stainless steel fittings / pluming dissolving .
From other sources , I've head that a combination of methanol and or there inability of staying on top of the PH , is a big problem ,
The refineries have been around for some time , the bio diesel plants [ almost all farmer coops ] are trying to get by with too short of a leaning curve .

 

[Moab4x4]

I wouldn't expect to see a problem with the metal lines, and especially stainless. I used to run some really nasty stuff through stainless steel lines in my prior line of lab work. I have eaten aluminum with methanol though. I soaked an aluminum carb overnight in a methanol bath to get it nice and clean in all the passages. Destroyed the carb. Made lots of aluminum oxide.



Anyway, I see the water in the diesel as the biggest threat to metal lines through rustout. Early trucks using rubber lines can experience softening due to the different aromatics in bio and I have heard of problems with old rubber lines and orings. I only use Viton orings wherever possible. I have had good luck with Buna-N 0-rings as well with regard to chemical handling. I have not heard of any fuel dissolving or corroding the plastic fuel lines that came on my 92. That being said I seem to have developed an air leak somewhere that requires lots of cranking after I sit for a few days... Hmmm.

Ken