Additives In The Fuel:::::

[radar doctor]

Ladies And Gentlemen ::: I'd Like To Know One Thing... . Is There Enough Lubercant In No #2 Diesel Fuel To Lubercate Our 2003 Pumps?? I See All This Hype On Here About We Need To Do This And We Need To Do That To Keep The Fuel Pumps Running Etc... out Here In Kansas We Have Cat Dealers, Cummins Dealers And We Have Hudge Electrical Power Producing Engines And I Can't Find Anyone Saying We Need To Add Additives. . i Been Out Of Contact With Tdr For A While And Wonder If There Has Been Something Written In Our Magazine About This?? I'd Like To Hear What You Guy's Have Learned Since The 3rd Generation Has Come Along. . Tks Radar Doctor

 

[cojhl2]

Well the only thing I know is on big trucks we don't worry about it and I've never seen a big truck driver at truck stops dick around with additives either.

 

[radar doctor]

Fuel Additives

Thanks For Your Input Trucker..... i Hope We Get Lots Of Other Views Too. . Radar Doctor

 

[TAbbott]

Well, there's a reason so much shelf space in truck stops is devoted to fuel additives. People buy and use them. My big rig is addicted to Lucas fuel injection cleaner. You can tell when it has it and when it doesn't. Much smoother and stronger with it. I know there was a report that indicated Lucas was lubricity neutral, but trust me, it does do something positive. I also add a little Wal-Mart 2 stroke oil for lubricity, both in my big rig and also my 06 CTD, which is also much smoother with the Lucas than without.

 

[DeezelDood]

Ladies And Gentlemen ::: I'd Like To Know One Thing... . Is There Enough Lubercant In No #2 Diesel Fuel To Lubercate Our 2003 Pumps?? I See All This Hype On Here About We Need To Do This And We Need To Do That To Keep The Fuel Pumps Running Etc... out Here In Kansas We Have Cat Dealers, Cummins Dealers And We Have Hudge Electrical Power Producing Engines And I Can't Find Anyone Saying We Need To Add Additives. . i Been Out Of Contact With Tdr For A While And Wonder If There Has Been Something Written In Our Magazine About This?? I'd Like To Hear What You Guy's Have Learned Since The 3rd Generation Has Come Along. . Tks Radar Doctor

This issue is not so much about 3rd gens as it is about ULSD. My local diesel shop mgr showed me an HP fuel pump that exhibited significant wear running ULSD. This shop promotes and sells Stanadyne, so one has to take this advice with a grain of salt. What is not subect to argument is that the standard for lubricity has been weakened and that Bosch's recommendation is more strict than the engine mfrs. Examples of 500,000 miles w/o additives are not relevant because ULSD is fairly new to the market. LSD was probably the fuel for these cases. The fuel suppliers are promising (not regulated) to additize ULSD to meet the minimum standard. I don't know a single Diesel p/u owner who is not using lubricity additives. Most big rig drivers are not owner/operators. The driver is sure as heck not going to shell out for additives out of his/her own pocket. It's cheap insurance whether its needed or not. I'm running 2% biodiesel and either Stanadyne or Power Service (whichever I can get my hands on). You do not have the time in a year to read all the TDR posts on this subject.

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

With the ULSD I believe its even more important to run a good fuel additive. After all I have seen a 2 to 3 mpg decrease using the ULSD and 3 psi of boost lost at WOT. So at 220,000 miles on my original VP44 (knock on wood ) and 150,000 miles being bombed to 475 rwhp I will continue to Standyne Performance additive.

But hey thats my 2 cents

Kyle

 

[DPellegrin]

Gentlemen- I'm going to have to disagree. I buy 11 million gallons of ULSD each year. We regularly run tests on this fuel for among other things lubricity and it has always passed the requirements of Detroit Diesel and Cummins as well as ASTM- D975 DF-2. We have never had a failure that was traceable to the lubricity of the fuel and the fleets fuel economy has actually gotten better. I'm not sure why this is, but I do know that the heating value of ULSD (API gravity) is the same a LSD. So I'm having trouble understanding the claims of increased fuel consumption.



Recently, I was in a meeting with the service manager of the local Cummins distributor and the field service engineer from Cummins Engine Company and I asked if they were aware of all the problems with ULSD. They said that they were not aware of these "problems". I asked if Cummins has ever published a service bulletin about the the evils of ULSD? They said they know of no service bulletin or any warning as it relates to ULSD. In fact, they wanted to know more about what I had been hearing and would take it up with the Columbus engineers. I did hear back from Cummins engineering and they were unaware of any problems with ULSD. It would seem to me that Cummins, CAT, DDC and other engine manufacturers would be jumping up and down if ULSD were causing their engines to fail. I also find it hard to believe that the trucking industry would put up with any fuel economy penality let alone the 5-10% that have been reported on many TDR posts.



"Our problems don't come from what we don't know, they come from what we know for sure , but just ain't so. " Mark Twain



Regards,

 

[TAbbott]

Is this fuel purchased in Minnesota? If so, the 2% mandated Bio-Diesel would explain the lubricity. Half of that (1%) is sufficient to markedly improve diesel lubricity. In fact, of all the lubricity agents tested, bio-diesel was the best out of at least 20 or so contenders.

 

[DPellegrin]

Some, but not all, of this fuel is Minnesotan. My peers on the left and right coasts have been using ULSD for over 7 years because of the emission benefits and have had the same experience as me. I can not explain the anecdotal comments about problems with ULSD other it's my sense that since it was mandated by the "government" and is an environmental benefit it therefore must be the result of some "tree hugger" plot to take over the world. It therefore must be bad and put in its place.



Also as I mentioned the fact that Cummins has not been overwhelmed with customer problems leads me to believe that there are other motives here!



Respectfully

 

[radar doctor]

I want to thank you guy's for your input, if i understand your article right , you said cummins wasnt worried about the fuel causing any trouble with the engine,, im concerned about the pump , and injectors,, is that included in your visit with cummins?? tks radar doctor

 

[DPellegrin]

I want to thank you guy's for your input, if i understand your article right , you said cummins wasnt worried about the fuel causing any trouble with the engine,, im concerned about the pump , and injectors,, is that included in your visit with cummins?? tks radar doctor

As I indicated the Cummins representatives I spoke to were field technical support that report to Columbus engineering and the service manager from the local distributor. I'm sure if there were a problem with ULSD causing failures with injectors and fuel pumps, these guys would know about it.



Regards,

 

[DeezelDood]

Your attempt to save us from ourselves is appreciated. Diesel owners are by and large a savvy bunch and therefore take an interest in what makes her tick. Gages, boxes, additives, the need to improve is an affliction for which there is probably no cure. I suffer no delusions on either side of the argument. Stanadyne is, by most accounts, a good product but its web site is using data from 2002, with LSD, to tout miracle lubricity improvement. The way they market it through repair shops is also ingenious. Maybe it is the best, who knows. I've looked for the mileage improvement that Stanadyne and Power Service claim but I, frankly, haven't seen it. When I have seen improvement it was probably because I added air to my tires. However, I swear I have seen a 0. 5 mpg improvement running 2% bio. If you're not careful it'll drive you nuts. Conversely, claims about "no problems" from Cummins reps should aso be taken with a large grain of salt. The mountain of anecdotal evidence cannot all be wrong. After all is said and done, addititizing my fuel makes me feel better. No harm in that, right?

 

[RRees]

About the first time my truck gells up, I'd be hating myself for not spending a couple of dollars to prevent it.

 

[B.G. Smith]

Here is some interesting reading on the subject. When my truck was new, very few miles the injectors were acting up, took it in and they didn't do anything to it. got it back and it did it again a few days later. Back to the dealer, they kept it two weeks, still no repairs but they did add a bottle of the Mopar additive and the service writer told me to use a small bottle (8oz) of 2 cycle oil to each tank of fuel I did this until about a month ago and deciced to try it without the oil. Run three or four tanks of fuel through it then an injector hung up, I added some Power Service and went back to the 2 cycle stuff. Just my experience. bg Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place

 

[DPellegrin]

DeezelDood- You got it right!! You can spend your money on whatever you want and with whomever you want!! " ... no harm in that".



I'm just relating my experience on this subject "... no harm in that".



Respectfully,

 

[JDiepstra]

I hae the results of my latest ultra scientific study. I use LDL in my tank almost every fill-up and can barely get any smoke to come out the back (except from the tires). I ran out of additive recently so I just didn't use any on my last fill up and I was able to make a lot more smoke.

 

[DeezelDood]

I concur. This forum is all about helping each other out by passing on our opinions and our experiences. I'm digressing here, but this is relevant to your situation. My . 02, I'm generally suspicious of gov't mandated anything (ethanol). The Minn B2 requirement is supposed to be an environmental move, however misguided that may be. I am convinced that this stuff, in low doses, is good for diesel engines. Dodge must think so because they ship all new Cummins trucks and Jeep diesels with B5 in the tank. Jury is still out on the true the cost of green fuels. I read an article about palm oil plantations in Indonesia. They are apparently wiping out rain forests to meet the demand for Biodeisel in Asia. There are supposedly regulations in US about importing Bio from destructive sources. How do they tell where it came from? Singapore shelved a plan to mandate B2 because of the Indonesian situation. I suspect that Minn is using home-grown soybean oil. I buy B100 (BQ9000 compliant) from a place that processes used french fry oil.

Respectfully...

 

[tgordon]

About the first time my truck gells up, I'd be hating myself for not spending a couple of dollars to prevent it.

I have run 20% down to -15. Topped out at 40 until the engine warmed up and never had a problem since. I know the blender and he is selling to University of Michigan for all their vehicles.



I will run with lubricant, or a biodiesel blend for the lubricity. Everything I have seen from the injection manufacturer says they are not putting enough lubricating additive back in. Given the company who would support any form of warranty, I am going with their answer.