2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Agm batterys

[turbo torque]

What's the know on AGM battery's? I see an AGM for us at 70 lbs. w/930 CCA and, CAT (DEKA) at 45.5 lbs. w/880 CCA.

From what I understand the AGM is a semi-gel with pure lead technology and the CAT is Silver Calcium Alloy.

Can someone enlighten me.

 

[NGuzik]

For the price of them I'm not sure the benefits out way the gains. They are usually half if not more than half the weight of a standard lead core battery. They generally have a longer warrantee, and hold up to impacts better. Only real downsize I see is the price can be an over the top. I have yet to get a set for my 94 but use to have one in a race quad that weighed a pound and a half and always worked even after a long winter sitting.

 

[GAmes]

Optimas are AGM. Acid glass mat are not gel, just a different formation of lead/acid. Two reasons I use them. They last a long time and they don't spit acid out the space between the hood and the fender and ruin my paint.

 

[fest3er]

Absorbed Glass Mat: the acid is absorbed into the (I think) fiberglass material. They're much more resistant to vibration than the usual lead acid battery. I put a set of red-top Optimas in my truck back in, I could swear, '02 or '03; they're still going strong.

 

[turbo torque]

Still somewhat confused, are they Lead Acid, or Absorbed Glass Mat? The ones I'm looking at weigh 70.3 lbs. each.

Here are the specs. Thanks.

SLI27AGMDP Battery 475CCA Heavy Transport J-2065-3 Oshkosh Motor Truck Semi Truck Coach or Bus
475CCA Heavy Transport J-2065-3 Oshkosh Motor Truck Semi Truck Coach or Bus Battery SLI27AGMDP. Group 27 with sealed AGM design means no acid leaks and improved safety. Get advanced AGM technology to power your vehicle. This group 27 X2Power battery is made with pure lead technology for instant cranking power and outstanding reserve. Built with durable plastic casing to withstand heavy vibration. Made in the USA and backed by a limited 5-year replacement warranty.
Item number: SLI27AGMDP
Weight: 70.3000 lbs
Voltage: 12V
CCA: 930
Primary Applications: Automotive, Cars, Trucks, Off Road vehicles, classic cars and more
Replaces: 2772J, 27DCMJ, 27DLG, 7271NL, 8A27M1NL, BA27D51, BT27P81, GPL27T, NSBG270001, TY25272

This product is available for purchase exclusively through a local Batteries Plus Store

 

[seafish]

What fest3er in post#4 above.

Agm beatteries ARE lead/acid batteries, but the acid is "adsorbed" into a fiberglass mesh. This process allows for a tighter configuration of the lead plates and acid, as well as allowing the battery to be mounted in ANY position since there is no actual liquid to leak out, since it IS adsorbed into the mat. "Gel" cells are a different animal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

 

[GAmes]

What fest3er in post#4 above.

Agm beatteries ARE lead/acid batteries, but the acid is "adsorbed" into a fiberglass mesh. This process allows for a tighter configuration of the lead plates and acid, as well as allowing the battery to be mounted in ANY position since there is no actual liquid to leak out, since it IS adsorbed into the mat. "Gel" cells are a different animal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VRLA_battery

What he said. I was half right anyway.

 

[JMcCoy]

For the above stated reasons, I would not purchase a non-AGM battery for any of my vehicles. They don't leak and last a long time. My red top Optimas were 9 and 7 years old. I could feel the cranking was a little slow, so I replaced both of them with yellow tops (cranking and deep cycle). That was 3 1/2 years ago. Yellows are still good. Both red tops still tested good so I could not bring myself to throw them out. They are in my garage. Every so often, I put a charger on them and they still test good. My plan was to mount them on my trailer winch. Odyssey's are supposed to be the best, but HOLY $$$. I have heard Sears and others supply quality AGM batteries.

 

[TJJEEPER]

AGM Batteries can last a lot longer if properly cared for. The charging curve is the same as a standard "flooded" cell so there shouldn't be an issue in our trucks. Where they really shine is in RV use. They are truly sealed and as such don't vent explosive hydrogen (as GAmes mentioned, they don't vent the acid either). You just have to make sure the RV charger is OK for an AGM battery.

I'm not sure I would pay the extra price for a truck battery. Especially if the truck is a daily driver. But that's something I don't think I need to worry about for a few more years. The stock batteries were still in my 06 when I traded it in on the 12.

 

[BK]

AGM Batteries can last a lot longer if properly cared for. The charging curve is the same as a standard "flooded" cell so there shouldn't be an issue in our trucks. Where they really shine is in RV use. They are truly sealed and as such don't vent explosive hydrogen (as GAmes mentioned, they don't vent the acid either). You just have to make sure the RV charger is OK for an AGM battery.

I'm not sure I would pay the extra price for a truck battery. Especially if the truck is a daily driver. But that's something I don't think I need to worry about for a few more years. The stock batteries were still in my 06 when I traded it in on the 12.

Sorry to disagree, but as a matter of safety...

AGMs are vented... but it's controlled ... "valve regulated lead acid " the AGMs are " VRLA " .
and usually have a "lesser" need for venting. But that has to be qualified.

Still have to be careful with them.

For the smaller units, like in your UPS and home alarm system (7.5ah sizes and alike), it's controlled (venting and charging) enough that it's not considered dangerous.

I've had to do explosion testing on them in cabinets (7.5ah and 55ah sizes), unless they fail, it's hard to get a bang, but it can happen.
When they fail internally. and they can, it can be a massive total nuclear melt down, they can cause a lot of damage.
They are subject to thermal run away and gassing .
All relative to the power source for charging, in a vehicle the alternator is plenty powerful enough to cause thermal run away.
The chargers for the small 7.5ah units (home standy UPSs and alarm systems) are generally not, very small and lightly fused chargers.
If one or more plates fail, short, the others see an over charge and the gassing begins, and the poppet valve will open and the VLRA will gas / vent.

Not trying to say they are worse , just trying to say, they can be dangerous, treat all these batteries the same.
No smoking around them, and please do vent them.
hydrogen gas is very dangerous.

Big advantage safety wise, no electrolyte running down you inside fender when off roading, much more rugged construction, much more vibration resistance.

 

[FOXY005]

Not to go offf topic here but I have a question. I have Interstste Batteries in my truck and they vent and corrode the terninals constantly a real PITA to continually clean. Have tried heavily coating the terminals with Di-Electric grease, but they still get corrosion on them (just takes a little longer). Would these AGM Batteries solve that problem for me? If so I am going to get some!

 

[BK]

Not to go offf topic here but I have a question. I have Interstste Batteries in my truck and they vent and corrode the terninals constantly a real PITA to continually clean. Have tried heavily coating the terminals with Di-Electric grease, but they still get corrosion on them (just takes a little longer). Would these AGM Batteries solve that problem for me? If so I am going to get some!

There can be a few reasons why your present batteries are doing it.

to answer your first Q , yes.

BUT, it shouldn't be happening in the first place...

So back to the problem.
you could be constantly gassing for a few reasons...
1) over charging..
which can happen for a few reasons..
-bad regulator
-a few plates shorted , causing over charging on the rest of the cells in the battery.

2) cracked seals around the posts...
can happen from the factory (those felt pads are meant to help this).
can happen from rough handling (those felt pads are meant to help this).
can happen from plate growth, which means, batteries are going bad anyway = time to get new batteries.

So if your float voltage is fine... in this weather could be as high as 14.8, summer should be 13.6 - 14.1 depending,
than you could be having one of the other problems, which means it's time to replace the cells.

If your over charging the batteries, you'll need to fix that AND get new batteries.

 

[FOXY005]

OK BK, thanks for the info.
I have the felt washers on from original install and it still corroded within several months so I went with the Di-Electric grease as extra protection.
Complete charging system was checked when the batteries were installed and tested OK.
The batteries have done this since new, note they are not the sealed top batteries but have caps on them.
The originals were sealed and never corroded, so I assume I have venting leaks in more than one place.
I guess i will try the AGM's and have the system tested again and see what happens, "note" current batteries are just about 5 years old so it's getting close to change time anyway.
Thanks again for the info.

 

[Matt42]

Regular flooded cell lead acid batteries tend to last 18 to 24 months in the hot, desert valleys of Arizona. It doesn't matter what brand, the heat just kills them even if water can be added. Worse, there's no warning. You can be out shopping, making multiple stops and all will be well. Then at your last stop, at 4 pm when you have a cart full of 15 gallons of ice cream and it's 115F outside, the flooded cell battery will be dead. Just plain dead. Good AGM batteries last way longer, even past their warranties. They'll give warning before they go bad. I used to use only Optima batteries. Then Johnson Controls moved Optima production from Colorado to Mexico. The battery quality tanked. My experience with the Mexico-made Optima batteries has ranged from disappointing to evil. I switched from Optima to Deka, Odyssey and the house brand of Batteries Plus. They've been very good.

 

[endoscott]

So how do I make sure the RV charger I have is OK. 2008 Arctic Fox, 24-5N. I will look up and see what kind of charger they put in those, but what kind of charger would be BAD for an AGMbattery. Secondary question is I leave my RV plugged into shore power to keep a little heater going, so it's on all the time. Should I leave AGM batteries connected all the time or put in a shut off switch and disconnect batteries and leave them on a separate charger made for AGMs?

 

[Wayne M.]

Excellent info BK!
Now about 18 mo ago, I put Die Hard Platinums in. My originals lasted all that time. I caught them on a great sale at Sears. There's thread on that here somewhere. I haven't had any issue with them and they spin the engine real fast. I understand the plats are made by Odyssey. I have no clue about the caterpillar battery or it's technology.

 

[BK]

So how do I make sure the RV charger I have is OK. 2008 Arctic Fox, 24-5N. I will look up and see what kind of charger they put in those, but what kind of charger would be BAD for an AGMbattery. Secondary question is I leave my RV plugged into shore power to keep a little heater going, so it's on all the time. Should I leave AGM batteries connected all the time or put in a shut off switch and disconnect batteries and leave them on a separate charger made for AGMs?

Best to have a " maintainer " , like from Battery Tender.

The maintainer aren't good at charging a fully discharged, or partially discharged battery, they are only good for the last 5-10% finish charge, and to keep it on "charge" for storage.
A maintainer have very very clean DC , very low ripple voltage.
The maintainer and chargers for AGM have a certain profile for initial charge, Float, and long term float.

As well, temperature compensation, they'll change the float voltage based on the temperature.
The lower the temp, the higher the float voltage.
The higher the temp, the lower the float voltage.

Most chargers/ AC-DC power supplies on trailers, also supply the 12Vdc for the trailer, and don't have great ripple, and any load on the output increases the ripple.

I use to keep my trailer batteries on my "trailer charger", and only got a couple of years out of them before I saw the capacity decrease.
Taking them out for the winter and putting them on a maintainer after a good charge, really increased their life.

I use a Charger from Sears with an AGM 40 amp charge profile to do an initial charge before storage.
Than each AGM has it's own maintainer.

 

[Mingoglia]

I managed to blow up my Odyssey, and was a bit disappointed when acid started shooting out of it and burnt tiny holes in my shorts:

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[BK]

ouch !!!!!!!!!!

we see these type of issues, these were minor and caught in time...

when not caught in time, we see things like this.. (not my pix, found on the web, but looks like sites we've walked into)..

 

[BK]

Excellent info BK!
Now about 18 mo ago, I put Die Hard Platinums in. My originals lasted all that time. I caught them on a great sale at Sears. There's thread on that here somewhere. I haven't had any issue with them and they spin the engine real fast. I understand the plats are made by Odyssey. I have no clue about the caterpillar battery or it's technology.

your welcome...

I lost track of who makes who... but they just don't make "plates", they make the whole battery and add the required label.
I thought, but could be wrong, that DEKA made CAT engine start batteries..

I'm not as much on the pure battery chemistry and sourcing side of things, as I am the remote monitoring and telemetry, and test equipment and automation of the techs doing PMs.