2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Air Filter: one dirt road and the minder says Now!

[ntsqd]

The title isn't being inflammatory, the life-span that I'm getting from Fleetgard filters in the '95's stock air box is pitiful. Filter minder is typically 1/2 down by the first oil change, and that's with little in the way of dirt roads involved. As the truck is 4wd and we typically use that at least once on each trip (& trips are all that the truck is used for) it means that I'm getting maybe 5k miles from an air filter - max. I don't need more power. I don't need more airflow. I need a filter that lasts a reasonable time period and 5k seems remarkably short. From my readings the solution isn't a "BHAF", nor do I want the noise that comes with one of those.

Truck came to us with a K&N in it. Based on my previous poor experiences with those replacing it was my first "mod" to the truck, prior to even reading anything about not using one on these engines. Speaking of, the truck is nearly stock. Trans had some work done and it has a 4" exhaust w/ 60" truck muffler and a TST 250HP fuel cam. That's it. All filters used are Fleetgard.

What am I doing wrong?

Suggestions?

EDIT: I note that Wix lists two filters for this truck, one is 2.25" thick and the other is 2.75" thick, but neither of the Fleetguard filters that cross from those Wix numbers are more than 2.25" thick. As I use Wix on everything else I am tempted to try the thicker filter.

 

[GrantP]

I had a similar situation on my 06 when I bought it a few years ago. Whatever brand air filter was in it (it wasn't marked) was the thinner style and it was constantly pulling down the filter minder even though it looked...and probably was...brand new. I put in a 4" Wix and the minder hasn't moved in 20k. Try the thicker filter.

 

[Bob4x4]

With increased power/flow filter restriction will happen quicker,best answer will be to use the oem style-once called extreme duty version

 

[GAmes]

I suggest you do an oil analysis from the filter you have been using, then do another with the different filter. Silicon content is what you need to find out. I use a Proguard 7 filter. My last sample, with 14,000 miles on the oil had a silicon count of 6 ppm. The mileage included a LOT of dust in construction zones on the Alaska highway, sometimes so bad I was down to 20 mph. The sample prior to that was 12,000 miles with a silicon count of 8 ppm. Genos sells the Fleetguard kits.

 

[KATOOM]

Dont make the mistake in thinking that OEM is always better. You simply need a bigger filter with more filter media volume. K&N achieves more CFM by reducing the media mass which in turn results in more dirt entering the engine. More of a problem on charged engines as they "suck in" air under force rather than draw it in via vacuum, and why you read threads where people find contaminated intake systems after using K&N air filters. Charged engines simply need more filtration.

That said, a BHAF or any similar aftermarket filter system will not increase the turbo noise worth noticing as long as the silencer ring is in place.

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

Is your filter actually filthy dirty? If not, take out the rubber boot between the airbox and fender. See if that makes a difference. It caused enough restriction on my truck that the filter minder only gave me a couple of days life. Without the boot, I got normal filter minder behavior....

 

[leathermaneod]

A BHAF IS the answer to your problem. You may not think you need more air, but how about better filtration? The stock filter boxes are known to leak dirt in at the corners as they age/crack. Btw my truck pulled the filter minder down just with bigger injectors and 30+ psi of boost. So the engine can pull more air than what the stock filter can support. A BHAF is easy to add and lasts for years, especially with a prefilter. No reason not to add one

 

[ntsqd]

I've an extensive back-ground in modified vehicles. In my old age I've learned that the OE solution isn't always bad, those guys might know a thing or two about setting things up. That isn't to say that they always get it right, but I don't just automatically replace OE stuff either. I'm still learning the nuances of these trucks, but assuming an non-OE solution is required the BHAF still isn't something I'm interested in. I'd be more inclined to build a filter box for some other filter element, like say the Donaldson Powercore made for P'strokes & what-not.

Typically when the minder is showing a plugged filter the filter is dirty, but I've run air filters on NA engines far longer than I should have that looked worse and didn't affect performance as much. I will have a look at that boot, thanks!

No idea how a K&N behaves on a boosted engine, but on my old NA Dune Buggy I was seeing grit in the incidental oil coating on the inside of the filter assembly. After eliminating any possible means for that grit to by-pass the filter, and trying every known to me at the time type of fabric filter oil I was left with only one conclusion, the grit was going THRU the filter. No further interest at all.

Were there room I'd fit a Donaldson cyclonic type filter assembly. As it is I'm looking at possibly fitting a 2nd gen OE assembly.

I've never had an oil analysis done on anything, other than when we were looking and feeling our way thru the 50 wt. that was just drained out of the Top Alcohol Dragster. I'll ponder that one, thanks!

 

[GAmes]

A BHAF IS the answer to your problem.

Which one? BHAF is a generic term that covers a lot of different big paper filters. Every post about excessive blowby I read on the forums I subscribe to have BHAF in the signature. Just like oiled filters, there are a lot of quality levels between paper filters. I've been told the Proguard 7 is no better than a K&N because the speaker has equated all oiled filters as being of the same efficiency. I have the oil sample reports to prove different. So tell us, what are the silicon numbers in your oil sample reports?

 

[ntsqd]

For now, and until I decide differently, the BHAF isn't on the table for consideration on our truck. No volume of arguments for it as our only solution is going to change that stance. I want an enclosed solution that does not intake engine bay air.

Occurs to me that perhaps I should replace the minder itself. The reset button shows evidence of some past, unknown trauma, could be that it is the actual problem.

 

[leathermaneod]

I'll have to dig through reciepts if you want the part number, but it's the Donaldson one. To each his own of course. As I said this is just my opinion based on all the research I did when I was trying to find a solution to the K&N that was on my truck when I bought. Saying that every post you read about excessive blowby has a BHAF, while interesting, really means nothing unless you also know how long that BHAF was on there and what was on before it and which BHAF and wether or not the owner is careful to make sure it's not leaking and all the other variables. I don't do any oil analysis so I can't share those with you, but I do check the inside of my intake tube and filter to make sure there's nothing in there I would also like to point out that an oil analysis is not necessarily an exact indication of how well the filter is filtering. For example, your truck may not be in as dirty/dusty of an environment as someone else using the same filter. Obviously this is why this things are tested in controlled environments. I read about a lot of those tests and results while looking into what I thought was best for my truck. I assume you've seen the pics of M1973M's turbo after all his miles with a BHAF?

As far as pulling engine bay air, that is really not a concern with these trucks especially if you have a heat shield. Unless of course if your making huge power and need to do all you can to keep EGTs down. You want your intake air to be between 100° and 143° when it hits the IAT sensor. Cold air intakes are completely counterproductive on these engines because the vp44 and ECM retard the timing with colder air and that hurts mpgs. Of course what you do to your truck is your decision, I'm just trying to share my findings with you good luck

 

[KATOOM]

I've an extensive back-ground in modified vehicles. In my old age I've learned that the OE solution isn't always bad, those guys might know a thing or two about setting things up. That isn't to say that they always get it right, but I don't just automatically replace OE stuff either. I'm still learning the nuances of these trucks, but assuming an non-OE solution is required the BHAF still isn't something I'm interested in. I'd be more inclined to build a filter box for some other filter element, like say the Donaldson Powercore made for P'strokes & what-not.

Typically when the minder is showing a plugged filter the filter is dirty, but I've run air filters on NA engines far longer than I should have that looked worse and didn't affect performance as much. I will have a look at that boot, thanks!

No idea how a K&N behaves on a boosted engine, but on my old NA Dune Buggy I was seeing grit in the incidental oil coating on the inside of the filter assembly. After eliminating any possible means for that grit to by-pass the filter, and trying every known to me at the time type of fabric filter oil I was left with only one conclusion, the grit was going THRU the filter. No further interest at all.

Were there room I'd fit a Donaldson cyclonic type filter assembly. As it is I'm looking at possibly fitting a 2nd gen OE assembly.

I've never had an oil analysis done on anything, other than when we were looking and feeling our way thru the 50 wt. that was just drained out of the Top Alcohol Dragster. I'll ponder that one, thanks!

Very true and my point was not to claim that anything OEM is bad. Rather that not all OEM is best, as you also pointed out. Yes, "those guys" know a thing or two but in generalizing the R&D process of a production vehicle leaves too much room for assuming that every component on the vehicle is engineered to unwavering standards. Profit and limited time frames more typically rule, which is why it seems like the consumer plays the biggest role in the overall evolution of a vehicle, and also why the aftermarket industry survives.

In saying all that, the 2nd gen airbox was a poor design and should be replaced with something else more efficient and more effective. As has already been pointed out, BHAF is merely a generic term for many large filters of the similar design. Not all perform the best either even though they look alike.

You could certainly build yourself a new airbox and use a BHAF type filter and plumb it best in accordance to your liking and noise level. That may be the solution to your plugged filter problem. Google that and check images. You'll find its not a new idea.....

 

[ntsqd]

The thing that I always remind myself when contemplating modifying a system is "An Engineer designed this, but an Accountant approved it. What would the Engineer have done if that second step didn't exist?" This truck isn't a project vehicle, I have enough of those ("Frank", "Scooter", 4rnnr), a ready-made solution is more desirable that having to build something from scratch. I'm not above building what I can't buy or don't find suitable, like a spare tire carrier, but I'd rather buy it if I can. The old money value of time thing.

As to the 3rd gen filter assembly (I typo'd that above), a friend with one gets considerably more mileage out of his 3rd gen deep filters than I am getting. The foot-print is slightly smaller, but the deep filter's depth is almost twice that of the"deep" 2nd gen filter. If one of those assemblies can be adapted it would very likely solve my problem.

 

[GAmes]

Driving through choking dust on the Alaska highway is a qualifier for efficiency as far as I'm concerned. That and the super low numbers after the number of miles a lot of people have changed their oil two or three times is a pretty good indicator as well. Controlled environment or not, I have yet to see any OA numbers from any BHAF users. Perhaps ignorance is bliss? Is M1973M a member? How many is "all his miles"? I haven't seen pictures of his turbo but can't imagine why it would be relevant unless the magnification can picture a particle in the ppm category. I could show you a picture of my turbo with roughly 500,000 miles on it, wouldn't mean anything.

 

[ntsqd]

Folks, Could we please move BHAF discussion to some other thread?

 

[KATOOM]

Not sure what you want to talk about then.....

 

[GAmes]

I agree. If you aren't willing to sample your oil to find out how efficient your current filter is compared to one that might not pull down the minder, or discuss alternative filters I'm wondering what the point was.

 

[ntsqd]

I didn't say that I wasn't willing to sample the oil at all. At this time I don't have any oil to sample, what is in the engine *might* have 2k miles on it - I'd need to check. I wanted to know if I was doing something wrong, or if my experience with the OE air filter was the norm. I stated in the very first post that I was not interested in a BHAF. I am interested in a non oil-wetted, enclosed air filter solution. I'm very sure that I'm not the first to want this.

 

[GAmes]

My mistake, sorry. Good luck finding a filter that isn't either oiled or a BHAF.

 

[JR]

There aren't many viable solutions for the 2nd gen crowd unfortunately. The 3rd gen air boxes are in a different location (where the battery is on the 2nd gens) so I'm not sure how that would work. If you could fit it up it would be a good solution and one I would be interested in.

I tried a Donaldson BHAF for a short time but ultimately went back to the OE box sucking through the fender well. I run a Smarty and RV275's and have not pulled my filter minder down to the red. May be worth a shot to change yours out if damage is suspected. Take part # 24801to your local parts store, if memory serves me correctly they aren't much over $15.