Air Horns

[Mad Bomber]

I looking at the ricksons air horns. The kit #2592 and the 1609. Does anyone have this combo, what do you think? Am I missing anything, is there a better one than this out there for about 300. 00 Thanx for all your help. Eric

 

[24V-DSL]

Eric... I just tried Rickson's website, and it wouldn't come up. Anyway, I have the Grover's from them, think the 1609's are the horns?? My kit had two horns, black finish. One of my favorite bombs. I'm very discriminating about using these, because they will cause road rage. They have saved me from a certain merging collision three times, so they've more than paid for themselves. One guy with a headset on over "corrected" so much he almost ran off into the ditch.

 

[JWChessell]

Rickson/Grover air horns

If the Rickson air horns you are looking at are made by Grover and have a Grover pump/compressor, I can give you A LOT of information. I've had a set of Grovers, with resevoir/tank, on-demand refill, etc. , on my truck for the past 11 years, and I've been to the Grover factory in Los Angeles. I made a more extensive installation than required by their install instructions, and included an inside-the-cab air pressure gauge. My experience is not all good, and they require quite a bit of maintenance. There's no sense in going into it extensively if what you're going to buy are not a Grover product. Mine is the model 1167 unit. Let me know.

 

[Mad Bomber]

Air

JW,yes all info needed I do also want to put in air bags later. What maint is needed.

Do I have anything else I need to get? Or that I should get that I'm missing. Eric

 

[Thomas]

I have used Grover 1601 (chrome-plated version of 1609) horns for three years. I used an install kit that Rickson was selling at the time. My only complaints involve the Grover 1167 compressor and plastic electric solenoid valve in the install kit. I've had the compressor apart twice and have replaced the plastic electric solenoid valve with a brass valve from Rickson. The horns themselves are top quality.



Kit #2592 seems to have addressed both of the problems I experienced. I see in the picture that the solenoid is now brass. The POS Grover 1167 compressor has been replaced with a small unit from Thomas Pumps, a producer of quality compressors.



A call to Rickson should answer questions about the change of solenoid & compressor.



Have fun!

 

[JWChessell]

OK, here's the 1st half. The whole thing was almost 7,000 characters too long for one reply. I've saved the other half and ill post it to a second reply in a few minutes.



My twin-trumpet Grover model 1167 unit is installed in my '81 Chev 1-ton crewcab DRW 4X2 GAS truck. Just bought an '03 Dodge HO 3500 QC LWB SRW 4X2 48RE 3. 73; going to sell the Chev. The mechanics of my installation will translate OK over to the Dodge, but the locations of the items won't.



I installed the entire thing under the hood, and managed to finesse the twin trumpets through an opening in the front of the truck so they are right behind the grill on the left side. Since other drivers' "blind spot" is in their own right rear quarter of their own vehicle, I wanted the trumpets on the left side of my vehicle.



If you mount the trumpets in any location where they are in the path of flying debris, such as insects, pebbles, gravel, etc. , then you need to put screens over the trumpet bells. Since mine are behind the grill, I used fiberglass window screen, and held it in place with a cable tie around the body of each trumpet just behind the bell. If you are going to mount your trumpets underneath, along the frame or something similar, I'd put the window screen on first, then light-weight metal screening, such as 1/8" hardware cloth, over the window screen, to keep out the pebbles and gravel.



I mounted the 1167 pump unit under the hood, in an accessible location on top of the left fender well. The unit pulls a lot of current when it's pumping, so I installed a fuse block and wired it directly to the battery through the fuse block.



Because it pulls a lot of current, and for a number of other reasons (more below) I wanted to be able to turn the pump circuit off, so that it wouldn't come on when the truck was parked. I used a marine type solenoid (NOT grounded through the solenoid body). The marine type is easy to identify: the automobile type has three terminals -- two for the heavy power circuit and only one for the switch that turns it on and off. The marine type has four terminals -- two for the heavy power circuit and two for the switch. You don't want this solenoid grounded to the negative side of your electrical system. With the marine type I was able to bolt it directly to the top if the front left wheel well.



I wired the pump to the battery through the solenoid (and the fuse block). Then I installed an "on-off" switch at the bottom of the dash inside the cab, so I could turn the solenoid on and off.

When "off," the solenoid does not operate and the pump/compressor is not energized even when the pressure in the tank falls below the level at which the pressure activated switch on the Grover pump switches to "on. "



I did this primarily for three reasons: With a full tank of air (105 PSI and in my case, a freon a/c service tank, the sort of semi-flat "pancake" or "donut" type) it wasn't necessary for the air compressor to come on every time the pressure dropped to 90 lbs; when I took the truck for service I could vent the tank and turn the pump "off," so that service personnel would not accidentally inundate their fellow workers with an unexpected air horn blast; and most importantly, the plastic air lines and their associated brass compression fittings leak air if the nighttime temperature drops below about 60 degrees. Every morning I'd have to put up the tank from scratch. Also, if I didn't have the shut-off switch, the air-pressure switch on the Grover compressor would keep cycling the compressor: Nighttime temperature would fall, air lines would leak, compressor would come on and fill tank, then shut off; lines would leak, pressure would fall, air compressor would come on, etc. , etc. -- and in the morning (or a few days later if the truck was parked for a little while) the battery (ies) would be dead. Since most on-off switches would not handle the compressor main power circuit passing through them, the solenoid was a necessity.



In my experience the Grover model 1167 compressor unit has been a maintenance hog. The compressor crankcase is fastened to the 12-volt electrical motor with only TWO machine screws. The aluminum crankcase unit is filled with 40 wt oil, and seals to the body of the motor with a gasket. TWO machine screws simply don't keep it tight, and it leaks oil. It needs four at a minimum, and preferably six. When I was at the Grover factory about 18 months ago to pick up some parts (more below) I met with one of their lead technicians/designers. He said they had "plans" to increase the screws to four, but I'll be it hasn't happened yet.



Somewhere, somplace I learned that most of the big-rig owners seal the aluminum crankcase to the electrical motor body with epoxy, and put loc-tite on the threads of the two machine screws. I did it as follows: First I tried clear silicone sealer, which did not turn out to be satisfactory. Then, I bought some heavy paper gasket material and made my own heavy-duty "crankcase-to-motor" gasket. I got everything clean and tidy, then coated all mating surfaces with a light coat of oil, including the gasket. I applied epoxy to both the crankcase mounting surfaces and the motor surfaces, with the heavy paper gasket in-between. I also stuffed the air-vent in the crankcase rim with a small wad of paper-towel material, so the epoxy would not block the vent -- the "splash" lubricating system generates enough pressure that it will rupture the seal if you block up the air vent. I then screwed it down with the two mounting screws. Once the epoxy set, I removed the screws, put loc-tite on them, and reinstalled. I know it works because I had to take it apart again a few days later, (more below) and was able to get the crankcase off fairly easily, and peel the epoxy off of the mating surfaces, then start over.



If you get a Grover 1167 model, once you mount the compressor unit the oil fill hole may not be accessible. For a couple of years I used to fill it with a railroad style oil can that had a thumb pump and a long flexible fill tube. Then I finally installed a brass 1/8-inch "street L" fitting -- female on one end, male on the other, bends 90 degrees -- into the threaded oil fill hold, and oriented the "street L" female opening so that any oil can would work -- and the Grover threaded oil fill plug screws into the open end of the "street L". You can't install anything longer or larger than a small 1/8-inch "street L", or even add a four inch piece of 1/8' brass pipe to it to make the resevoir easier to fill, for two reasons:

40 wt oil will not flow down that narrow hole with any thing other than glacial speed, and if you put anything longer than the street-L on it the vibration will eventually crack the aluminum crankcase.



I've had to replace the compressor piston connecting rod and "crankshaft" roller bearing assemply twice. Once because I broke it myself after reassembling the unit, and a second time because the replacement rod failed.



When you reassemble the crankcase onto the motor body, you have to make sure the eccentric drive pin on the end of the motor armature (drive shaft or "crankshaft") fits neatly into the hole and bearing on the bottom of the connecting rod. If not, not only will the compressor not work, the rotating eccentric pin will break the connecting rod, which is what happened to me. The only way to do this and be sure you've done it correctly is by using a small flashlight to look through the oil fill hole. You can JUST BARELY see the eccentric drive pin mating correctly with the connecting rod bearing.



When I ordered my replacement parts Grover sent me an aluminum connecting rod, rather than a steel one as came with the original unit. After a few months the constant vibration deformed the socket at the bottom of the aluminum connecting rod so that it would no longer hold the roller bearing securely. Of course, I didn't figure this out until I'd reassembled the unit another time (with epoxy) and had to take it apart again a few days later.



When I called Grover in east Los Angeles to order another connecting rod, and to make sure I could get a STEEL one, I learned they had instituted a $25. 00 "small order" surcharge. My order was about $28. 00, PLUS the $25. 00 surcharge! So I decided to drive to east LA -- about 50 miles -- and pick up the parts myself; that was when I was able to speak with the technician/designer. Once there, I learned that Grover had started the surcharge in order to keep their dealers and suppliers from ordering less than $200. 00 of parts and supplies at one time. I pointed out to them that this made NO SENSE for people like me, and that if I hadn't been able to drive economically to east LA, the cost for my repair kit would have DOUBLED; that in my opinion, it made much MORE sense to have this "small order surcharge" only for customers using a resale sales-tax ID number -- their dealers and suppliers -- and to continue to allow their individual consumer clients who bought the product to use in their own vehicles -- like me -- to buy repair kits over the phone with a credit card # and NO surcharge. Well, they looked at me like I was speaking Urdu. In fact, the actual reply was: "Sorry, that's our policy for everyone. "



ADVICE: If you aren't close enough to the Grover factory to go there in person, when you order the original unit, order a repair kit at the same time. If you already have an 1167 or other Grover unit, order a repair kit NOW from your local dealer or supplier, and when that business has orders exceeding $200. 00, you can get your repair kit without the surcharge.

 

[JWChessell]

OK, here's the 2nd half:



Grover air horns, continued:



While installing the whole unit, I added a quick-disconnect air-hose fitting to the top of the storage tank, so that I can pump up tires, inflate an air mattress, etc. The small Grover pump/compressor will NOT generate enough air flow to run pneumatic tools, nor does the small freon-style tank hold enough air for that purpose either. The tires on my Chev 1-ton are 16. 5 X 9. 10 six-ply radials, and it takes about six tanks of air to fill one to around 50 lbs, and it's hard work for the compressor to fill six tanks without interruption. The flip-side of the coin is that it is LIGHT YEARS preferable to strain that little compressor and fill one of those tires in about a half-hour, than not to fill the tire at all. Include an air nozzle fitting on your hose, and also make sure the hose is long enough to reach ALL the tires on any trailer you tow. Then you don't have to disconnect the trailer and move the truck in order to fill a trailer tire, especially if you're someplace where you can't turn around -- guess how I learned this?



I also added a pressure gauge to the tank so that I can read the air pressure with the hood open -- this is helpful when filling tires because you can tell when the tank and the tire have "balanced out" -- something that is sometimes not possible if you're in a noisy environment and can't hear the air flowing.



I added a second air pressure gauge inside the cab, in a position that I can read from the drivers' seat. As it's difficult to find an air pressure gauge with an internal light, I mounted the gauge very low and tight against the left-foot kick-panel, inside and forward of the front of the left driver's door. I had previously mounted a flash light holder for a six-cell Mag-Lite on the floor at the left end of the front seat, such inside the door, and had drilled an access hole in the holder so I could turn on the flash light without removing. As luck would have it, it shined directly on the air pressure gauge. This is handy when driving -- you frequently CANNOT HEAR the Grover compressor running, over road noise, the noise of the engine, the radio, etc. If the pressure is rising, the unit is running. If the solenoid switch is "on," but the pressure is below 90 lbs and not rising, something is wrong. Next time I'll add two small indicator lights to show (1) when the solenoid system is "on," and (2) to show when the compressor is actually running.



The Grover 1167 unit is operated by an electrically activated air solenoid. Press the "honk" button and the electrical solenoid, immediately behind the trumpets, activates and allows high pressure air to pass through from the tank. The way this air solenoid switch is configured and mounted makes it prone to damage from vibration, although I've only replaced mine once. I'd include a second one in my "repair kit" when ordering.



When I installed the unit, I decided to wire the air solenoid through the steering-wheel horn-ring/button. This turned out to be a lot more work than I'd anticipated. You have to wire it through the negative side, because the horn-switch assembly in the middle of the steering wheel will not the Grover current pull.

I decided I wanted it this way because the natural reaction to "danger-and-need-to-use-horn" is to slam the middle of the steering wheel with the palm of your hand. I installed another switch at the bottom of the dash so that I could switch between the regular horn and the air horn. I used an "on-off-on" three-position switch, so I could turn off the horn ring altogether. The Chev crew-cab has one big advantage over the Dodge, especially if you're small: The two seats are long enough and wide enough for my wife and I to stretch out completely and sleep comfortably, and we've stayed in many campgrounds without having to pull a trailer. It made sense to be able to turn both horns off completely from inside the truck so that the horn button wouldn't get bumped accidentally in the middle of the night by somebody's foot.



Finally, I grew to dislike that system. I had a ground problem in the Chev and the system was hard to troubleshoot. Frequently neither horn would work either because (after all, at this point the Chev is 22 years old) of electrical circuit problems or because I'd forgotten to set the switch in the "on" position; or the "wrong" horn would on, went I'd want the other one. You don't just "tap-tap" some inattentive but otherwise inoffensive person at a changing traffic light with the air horn. It tends to change their demeanor when that was not what you intended.



Finally, I replaced the "on-off'-on" switch with an "on-off", wired only to the regular horn. I rewired the air-horn solenoid to an "on-off-momentary contact" push-button switch under the carpet on the left side of the floor, just below the old-fashion-style high-beam headlight foot switch. With this system, although I had to remember to press the switch with my foot in order to use the air-horn, I could also use both horns at the same time, or graduate from the regular horn to the air-horn in an instant without having to reach down to the bottom of the dash and change the "on-off-on" switch.



Following an unpleasant occurrance at a local gas station when one of the assistants blasted his boss across the service bay with an ENTIRE TANK of high-pressure air through the air-horn while backing the truck out of a service bay, I added yet another "on-off" switch, to disable the foot switch when I wanted. Turns out (as I had done a few times myself but in less disturbing circumstances) when you turn around in the driver's seat to look out the rear window to back up, you almost automatically move your left foot to where the foot switch was located. The gas station assistant had no idea he was pressing on the switch, and the huge blast of the horn in the small confined space froze him in place until the entire tank of air ran out -- about 10-12 seconds. His boss was about 2 feet in front of the truck at the time, with a cup of coffee; he was not happy.



However, I like the foot-switch method, and that's what I intend to use in the new Dodge, with an "on-off" cut-off switch near the bottom of the dash. I'll be able to mount the foot switch a little higher, and perhaps use an old-style momentary contact starter foot-switch (like a high-beam foot switch, but doesn't stay "on" when you release it) as the Dodge doesn't have any foot headlight switch in that area. I intend to use the marine solenoid system again, and to wire the compressor direct to the battery (used either # 10 or #12 stranded wire) through a marine-type solenoid and a separate fuse block. I'll also have a gauge under the hood, and a gauge inside the cab, and I'll use an "on-off" switch to control the marine solenoid.



Well, that's my experience. I'd use the Grovers again, but I know alot more now. I'd rather have another compressor, but can't decide whether to have an engine-driven one, or a separate electrically driven motor-and-compressor assembly. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I would like to have a larger air storage tank, but finding a place to put it is the hard part. Back under the rear cab or the bed bed is an option, but that requires more lines and the potential for more leaks.



You'll probably have some questions; ask anytime.



JW Chessell

 

[Mad Bomber]

TTT

JC Thanx for all the info I'm still looking if still info or opinion Thanx Eric

 

[rweis]

I put a Porter Cable 1 1/2 hp 4. 1 hotdog in the bed rather than fight the 12v compressor route. Right now I use it to run a US Gear D-Celerator. Can run it 4 - 6 days at a time before pumping up again. I also plan to run horns in the future off same compressor.



Reason I went with a Home Depot sompressor was total unit built for one purpose, air compressor by a extremely reputable company that does this as a main line product. I read many threads of guys doing the 12v compressors, tanks, etc and trying to fit them here and there and having problems with location, wiring, plumbing.



The unit I got was the Porter Cable dual hotdog with the OIL sump compressor. Comes with regulator, gauge, 2 quick disconnects. DeWalt also makes a good oil sump unit.



Now to power it. It draws 12 amps, BUT a 2500 watt honda generator will NOT start it. Takes a 3500 watt to start the compressor. Right now I use it for e brake only and it is good for a couple of days. When I want to use it I make sure I pump it up every day with a 120v extension cord.



I am on the lookout for a 3500 watt honda if anyone has one used, or wants to swap for a 2500 watt honda used and $$.



I mounted it on 2 2x8's side by side in the bed to keep it in place.



Commercial, easy, single purpose, professionally made, high quality. Works for me.



Bob Weis

 

[GAmes]

I also got tired of the POS Grover compressor and found the compressor from an 85 Caddy works great! It requires no oil changes and puts out more air. I ran a lead from an ignition hot circuit to my relay to keep the pump from running with the key off. I also installed a small LED from radio shack in the dash that lights up when the pump is running, since I can't hear it over the engine. If an airline breaks it will alert me the pump is running constant and I'll be able to pull the fuse before the pump burns up.

 

[Mad Bomber]

They are now using thomas air compressers # 315 are they better than the grover POS? Can I hear from a persom that has the hadly horns what's the price verses the grover, are they better?Thanx for all replys still could use more. Eric

 

[Mad Bomber]

TTT

I'd still like more help with this PLEASE. Thanx Eric

 

[Task125]

I have a set but I am using stutter tone horns,mounted everything in my toolbox to keep them out of the weather. horns fit under bumper sideways

 

[24V-DSL]

I have the newer compressor... . no concerns/complaints.



IMO, Hadley's have a higher pitch, more shrill. Grover note is deeper. Rickson's will toot them over the phone if you've never heard them. None of this may concern you, but you're asking for more info.

 

[Loren]

Eric,



I have had the Hadley Bully horns on my truck for several years. I moved them from the 1995 to the 2000 truck when I got the new one.



The only problem I have ever had with them has been an air leak in the compressor. I discovered this during the installation on the 2000 truck. I fixed it by dismantling the compressor and sealing the surfaces. Sorry, I can't remember exactly what was leaking.



Someday I'd like to install a real compressor on the truck for airing tires, etc. When I do, I'll plumb that into the air horn system for faster pressurization. Until then, I'm happy with my Hadleys.



I can't tell you about the price. Mine were a gift. The Hadleys used to be available from J. C. Whitney, probably still are.



Loren

 

[Sregorb]

Eric,

You will love that Grover combo, I know I do!!! I just got done installing mine a few months ago. You can read and see pics about it here:

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=73505

In addition I still have the schematics to hook it all up and I'll PM it to you if I can get an attachment on it.

Based on hearing side by side Hadley's and Grover's, the Hadley's sound more higher pitch (think train) and the Grover's sound more lower pitch (think big rig).

Go with whatever your individual tastes are!



Brian

 

[schu777]

Sregorb - compressor in cab???

Sregorb, how did you get the lines into the cab? I'm seriously thinking about getting the air horns and putting them in... just to scare the people at work.

 

[Sregorb]

Yep, check my reader's rig gallery, I think I have at least one pic of the compressor in the underseat storage in the back. If I had it to do again I think I'd put it right there too since it was a piece of cake getting both the electric and the air lines thru the thin metal back wall of the cab..... and having the compressor in there breathing clean air is not nearly as noisy as I was initially expecting.



Brian

 

[Phil Stuart]

Hadleys versus Grovers

I installed the Hadley Bullys (from Camping world) in the 2001 and now have the Grover 1609 (from Rickson) in my 2002 truck.

IMHO the Grovers are the way to go. Deeper sound and seem louder than the Hadley Bullys.

To my recollection there was about a $100. 00 difference in price being the Grovers were more but a very good setup.



Phil

 

[2003Cummins4Me]

I thought that the stutter/flutter tone horns were illegal? I heard that only emergency vehicles are allowed to use them? I like the flutter tone alot... so someone please correct me if i am wrong.