All wheel drive transfer case

[Charlie Lawhon]

2 of the trucks I'm working with now are headed to test bed a new transfer case to replace the 4x4 case.

The topic has been touched on in another thread but before I go and spend the money to build what I'm looking for I would like all the input I can get on the subject.

I own a private label OEM company and to build a 1 off or a couple of copies is one thing but to build an aftermarket product takes a bit more consideration.

I posted here because the bodies that are going to get it either way are first half 2nd gen drive train.

 

[Ozymandias]

Ah here he is.

Like I said in an the other thread, you can use 2Gen as a test bed, but you want to build a TC for 3Gen till Present.
Because you want to make money with it.

In the other thread you asked about the torque capacity of the Torsen System - that's not limited, it's all about size.

For example, 3Gen to present has a Type 2 Torsen in the rear axle from factory.

 

[Wayne M.]

What about an aftermarket case like the Atlas? Based on the NP205, looks pretty stout.

 

[Ozymandias]

We want an AWD Case, for Part Time the NV273 is strong enough.
But a real permanent 4WD that helps get the power to the ground on Asphalt that is desirable.
Starting from a dead stop without spinning wheels..... mmmmmh...

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

We want an AWD Case, for Part Time the NV273 is strong enough.
But a real permanent 4WD that helps get the power to the ground on Asphalt that is desirable.
Starting from a dead stop without spinning wheels..... mmmmmh...

I will definitely be making them for all generations. I wouldn't limit it to just the older vehicles. I have found the worm gear you're talking about and I fully understand how it works. I have figured out how to define the power division also. I have studied the cause and effects of under/over steer caused by incorrect power division. I have owned several all wheel drive import cars and loved them. I do fully understand what you're saying about power now, and why you can't just use a transfer case.

The reality of it boils down to the fact it's not really a transfer case as in 4x4 but it's a center differential. That's the only way we can use it on pavement. The clutches and viscous couplers are not realistic for what we're proposing here.

I have been doing a ton of research on this and when I give the go ahead to prototyping it will be a solid design I promise you. I'm all about American iron that can hold up to years of use within the designed operating envelope.

I appreciate your input. I would not have done the research I have had you not prompted me to go the direction toward the torsional worm gear system. It is fantastic.

Thanks

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

What about an aftermarket case like the Atlas? Based on the NP205, looks pretty stout.

The atlas systems are not usable on pavement. They are an awesome piece of equipment for off road. I will most likely have a totally unique design that will be compatible with the transmissions. Will probably need to change drive shafts but other than that I'm going to try to stay inside the factory footprint

 

[NIsaacs]

The NP203 full time 4x4 t-case uses a center differential. My '75 Ford 250 has one. I do have a Doug Nash part time kit in it. I have found that it doesn't oil proper with the chain stopped in part time 4x2 with hubs unlocked. By design, the chain needs to always turn to splash/carry the oil to the top shafts/gears.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

The NP203 full time 4x4 t-case uses a center differential. My '75 Ford 250 has one. I do have a Doug Nash part time kit in it. I have found that it doesn't oil proper with the chain stopped in part time 4x2 with hubs unlocked. By design, the chain needs to always turn to splash/carry the oil to the top shafts/gears.

Yeah that's pretty old school and easy to knock the bearings out of sounds like. Whatever I release will not have a chain drive. All my experiences with chain cases end up not working pretty quick.

 

[NIsaacs]

All my experiences with chain cases end up not working pretty quick.

I don't see that in my experience. All the heavy duty pickups have used chain for the past 20 years. You don't see many failures, even with less than by the book maintenance.

340k miles and 19 years old for my '01, one input shaft seal and two rear output seals. I do change oil every 36k miles.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

I don't see that in my experience. All the heavy duty pickups have used chain for the past 20 years. You don't see many failures, even with less than by the book maintenance.

340k miles and 19 years old for my '01, one input shaft seal and two rear output seals. I do change oil every 36k miles.

We post up on pavement and rev to fuel cut in 3rd gear standing dead still and side step the clutch some times. Chains don't handle it very well from what we've seen. I just watched one grenade in person 2 weeks ago doing exactly that.

 

[NIsaacs]

Okay, you are talking "purpose built" trucks not your run of the mill 2nd gen.

Gears fail too in that scenario, top picture is an NV4500 3rd gear full boost launch. A few other pictures of trying to break stuff.

 

[TFucili]

Never saw a starter armature with a CV joint in it, Nick

 

[NIsaacs]

Never saw a starter armature with a CV joint in it, Nick

My point was it is gear drive not chain

 

[Ozymandias]

Chain TCs are a US unique thing, Europe and Japan uses Gears solely to my knowledge.
Chains aren't a bad thing, they have some pluses, easy to build and to maintain, no special tools needed.
But gears are the way to go - exactly the same as a timing chain vs. gears in an engine.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Okay, you are talking "purpose built" trucks not your run of the mill 2nd gen.

Gears fail too in that scenario, top picture is an NV4500 3rd gear full boost launch. A few other pictures of trying to break stuff.

View attachment 119020 View attachment 119021 View attachment 119022 View attachment 119023 View attachment 119024

nice work there. Looks like some of ours.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Highly agreed.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Chain TCs are a US unique thing, Europe and Japan uses Gears solely to my knowledge.
Chains aren't a bad thing, they have some pluses, easy to build and to maintain, no special tools needed.
But gears are the way to go - exactly the same as a timing chain vs. gears in an engine.

Highly agreed

 

[Ozymandias]

The atlas systems are not usable on pavement. They are an awesome piece of equipment for off road. I will most likely have a totally unique design that will be compatible with the transmissions. Will probably need to change drive shafts but other than that I'm going to try to stay inside the factory footprint

Thats okay as the rear drive shaft anyways needs a modification as you'll build the TC with a rear flange instead of a slip yoke.

 

[Charlie Lawhon]

Thats okay as the rear drive shaft anyways needs a modification as you'll build the TC with a rear flange instead of a slip yoke.

The first one is being planned with a flange. I'm using a hellcat complete rear cradle and I like the factory drive shaft that's with it.

Just an update on where I'm at. I got in touch with my engineers and machine shop guys yesterday as well as my production facility. Everyone is ready to get on this. I will have a prototype built for a 2017/2018 side by side with mine that my dad is going to test bed. He pulls heavy loads and has a mild program so we'll know more about standard usage for a late model really soon.

 

[Ozymandias]

Awesome, I'm keen to see the outcome and how it performs pulling loads.