Am I missing something????

[DZink24]

With the recent spike in oil cost, and politicians sounding like the saviors, they have all the answers, why have I not heard a single one of them even mention BIODIESEL? All they are worried about is hydrogen, E85, ethanol, electric, hybrid, ect ect ect, and how this will "save American wallets"? Full scale ethanol is most likely a few years away, and hydrogen may be as many as 20 away. If they would spend as much time working on setting up bio facilities in other places than the midwest as they do pulling the wool over our eyes, we'd be set. Lets see how many 18 wheelers are able to run on hydrogen or electric!

 

[JTCash]

DZ,



Very well put.



R/



Jim

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Generally speaking, refining crude oil is a slam-dunk.



The raw material is relatively uniform, is available in a volume large enough to keep refining installations at full capacity, and the source is delivered easily to your door via large tankers or pipelines.



Now look at bio fuels:



Source is widely scattered, and seasonal, and varies greatly in quality and type - production is erratic, and delivery expensive due to smaller volumes over wider source areas - and much of that source is in relative large rural areas with low population sources and refinery work forces - plus, finished product has to be transported over long distances as well.



Personally, I think smaller and portable refineries might work better than larger fixed-location ones - at least as far as ability to keep the processing close to the raw material source. But delivery of finished product is still a concern, unless possibly the processing could be done close to railways...

 

[KBennett]

Biodiesel is a good alternative but how many people drive diesels? 10%?



Politicians are going to cater to the majority. Unfortunately, that's not us.

 

[DLGonzo]

There may not be many personal auto running on diesel, but look around you. semis, trains, Buses, boats, heavy equip. They use TONS of fuel! And, if there is a demand for diesel cars there will be diesel cars. The one hold back now is meeting new stengent emmisions for Particulate and Nox

 

[flyairam]

Figures lie and liars figure. But there are several studies that state biodiesel actually requires more energy to produce than just using crude. I believe it. Now, using all that waste cooking oil and any other waste fluid is a good thing, but using fuel to grow food to make fuel is a lose/lose proposition, IMHO.



RAH out.

 

[Cattletrkr]

But there are several studies that state biodiesel actually requires more energy to produce than just using crude. I believe it. Now, using all that waste cooking oil and any other waste fluid is a good thing, but using fuel to grow food to make fuel is a lose/lose proposition, IMHO.



RAH out.

Sorry, but I gotta jump all over that one. Biodiesel made from soybeans is a net energy gain. Those studies you mention take into account all the fuel used by the farmer, fertilizer producer, processor, blah blah blah. What they fail to mention is that the soybeans are going to be grown anyway. If you start figuring the cost of bio production from the point of delivery, bio is way out in front.



So yes, those studies are correct, but not really. Not in any way that matters.

 

[JFaughn]

Generally speaking, refining crude oil is a slam-dunk.

The raw material is relatively uniform, is available in a volume large enough to keep refining installations at full capacity, and the source is delivered easily to your door via large tankers or pipelines.

Now look at bio fuels:

Source is widely scattered, and seasonal, and varies greatly in quality and type - production is erratic, and delivery expensive due to smaller volumes over wider source areas - and much of that source is in relative large rural areas with low population sources and refinery work forces - plus, finished product has to be transported over long distances as well.

Personally, I think smaller and portable refineries might work better than larger fixed-location ones - at least as far as ability to keep the processing close to the raw material source. But delivery of finished product is still a concern, unless possibly the processing could be done close to railways...

I think that you just answered the ? with out intending to .
Its the vested interest [ both monitary & political ] that are keeping the change from happening , no info from media , same group .
If its done by many small scale operations , the change can happen easyer , there are also answers to the volume issue , many operations and also a study involving alge farms , harvesting daily vs 1-3 times a yr.

Biodiesel-Biofuels Research


I think this was the study.

 

[DMannon]

Sorry, but I gotta jump all over that one. Biodiesel made from soybeans is a net energy gain. Those studies you mention take into account all the fuel used by the farmer, fertilizer producer, processor, blah blah blah. What they fail to mention is that the soybeans are going to be grown anyway. If you start figuring the cost of bio production from the point of delivery, bio is way out in front.



So yes, those studies are correct, but not really. Not in any way that matters.

Got to agree with you, CT, especially when you figure in its dual usage, first in food service, then as an energy source. Plus ALL the by-product from VO production is used (and paid for by the end user).



The real issue is the amount of VO production capacity we have, versus the amount needed for transportation, heating, and energy production. The amount of VO we presently produce in this country would account for only 5-15% of what we currently need, depending on who's speaking.



My guess is that if fuel prices stabilize where they are or continue to go up, there's going to be a lot more competition at the back of the local Chinese restaurant... some entrepreneur will capitalize on it, and it will most likely be someone who is already in the business... you know, that whole 'barrier to entry' thing. Our area is already getting buttoned up by the local tallow plant. You have to be sort of surreptitious (show up on Sunday morning) to get WVO.



I wonder how the coops are dealing with highway taxes?