Amsoil 15W-40 HDD&M -vs- Amsoil 5W-30 HDD

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For those of you that have used BOTH the Amsoil 15W-40 Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine AND the Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 Heavy Duty Diesel, could you tell me your preference and why? I have been very satisfied with their 15W-40 HDD&M although, I can't help but wonder if the 5W-30 HDD may be a better choice. Also, if you have switched to the 5W-30, do you run it all year long or just during the winter? What have oil analyses shown?

Thank you in advance for your input. John #ad

 

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John,

I haven't logged many miles on the 5w-30 yet, but small differences are immediately noticable. The Cummins seems more responsive, with reduced drag. Is it worth the extra money?... . YES & NO. I fully expect the 5w-30 to shine this winter in start-ups and fuel mileage. As for summer, I cannot see much of a difference other than what I mentioned in my first sentence.
Secondly, if you plan to use oil analysis as a means of determining intervals... again yes I recommend it. If you plan to maintain a regular mileage interval schedule... NO. . its just too damn expensive for what little it offers over the 15-40. Again, this winter will be its first. . so I may think differently next spring.

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98. 5' 24v 2500 Auto/3. 54 4x4 SB QC. Everything but leather. PIAA driving lights, AMSOIL oil filter relocation system,Smittybuilt Stainless Steel Nerfs,Rhino Liner,K&N air filter. Somehow lost my silencer Ring.

 

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John, I remember Amsoilman and a couple others comparing analysis results between the 2 oils and in all cases, wear metals went down. Wish I could find the posts but this was many months ago.

Last night I was looking at some of the Amsoil literature and noticed in the graphs comparing the 4-ball wear test against other oils, Amsoil compared the 5W30 oil. I wonder how the HDD & M 15W40 would compare in the same test? Probably very close to the Delvac 1 (my guess).

I am considering going back to Delvac 1 because of the 5W40 rating - the "ideal" weight IMO. I went Amsoil since it's considerably cheaper. I had awesome oil analysis results running Delvac on my '98--Iron count was a mere 11ppm after 5500 miles, with many WINTER short trip miles!!! Aluminum = 2!

I am having a hard time telling if the 15W40 Amsoil I have now works much better than the Delo 400 I switched from. The turbo spools down about the same speed and engine stops just as fast when shut down and MPGs are about the same.

Vaughn

 

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The 4 ball wear test (ASTM D4172B) info I have from Amsoil shows the 5W-30 at 0. 391 and the 15w-40 at 0. 40 mm scar. In the same test Delvac was 0. 431, Delo 400 15w-40 was 0. 599, Rotella was 0. 683 and Cummins Premium Blue at 0. 707

I used Amsoil 15-40 for about 12,000 miles and was happy with the analysis report so I upgraded to the Series 3000 5W-30. I have 16,000 miles on the oil and just got back my analysis report (which I do every 6mos when I change the filter). I will post my latest oil analysis results if you are interested.

 

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I ran Rotella T then switched to 5w-30. I haven't change my oil since but the consumption is about 1 qt/4,000 mi. I will be sending in a sample in about 2 months. It will be the 3rd at 44,000 mi since I switched. Huge difference in winter starting over Rotella. Used 1 gallon of Amsiol 15w-40 as make up oil but viscosity went up at second sample so I went back to 5w-30.

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'94 3500 4x4, 200,000! miles, Auto w/shift kit,3. 54 Gears, TST #5 plate, 235-85-16s, Rancho 9000s w/remote, Isspro gauges inplace of cupholder & Amsoil Bumper to Bumper. NRA member.

 

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1tuffRam, let's see those numbers! #ad

 

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I just got my analysis back, 10,980 miles on Delvac 1, with one qt of make up at 5500, and a new filter. Iron=18 Alum=7 TBN=10. 5

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95-2500-ExtCab-LB-4x4-Auto-AMSoil Air Filter, Bypass Oil Filter by others, AMSOIL and Mobil Synthetics, TST 255HP and TransGO Shift kit .

 

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1tuffram, please post the results of your oil analysis. #ad
Please list the mileage on your Amsoil 5W-30 HDD at the time of sampling.

I show the four ball wear scar for the 15W-40 HDD&M at . 35 mm (ASTM D-4172B @1200 RPM). This data was taken from an Amsoil tech. sheet dated 9/98. The wear scar for the 5W-30 HDD is listed at . 39 mm (ASTM D-4172 @1800 RPM). This data was taken from an Amsoil tech. sheet dated 5/99. ALL other facets of the four ball wear test were identical between the two oils (except for the different RPM used for the testing of each of the two oils). An apples to oranges comparison. #ad


It sounds as if the 5W-30 is the superior oil of the two however, the sixty-four dollar question remains, is it worth the difference?

 

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I used the 15W40 for about 75K miles. Three 25K cycles. I have run the 5W30 for about 45K. I do run it year round. Wear seams to be about the same. I sample every 6K, change filter and new quart of oil. The 5W30 seems to help the MPG a little. I have got my best MPG since changing (this is the only change to the engine other then 150K miles one it).

THe 15W40 would get to 90ppm Iron at about 25K miles. No bypass, only stock filtration (microglass and now statopore). The first cycle of 5W30 was only to 60ppm iron at 25K. This engine is worked hard BTW.

Have not had a hard winter up here in ND the last few. The 15W40 still cranked kinda slow below -25.

Also, the 5w30 seems to hold the TBN longer.

I believe the 5W30 to be a better oil. Not sure it justifies the amount higher then the 15W40. If I did not have to deal with the cold (below -20) I would probably stay with 15W40. Or atleast I should add Bypass to the 5W30 and just run it until sample says change. Not sure it I want to drive that many miles!

jjw
ND

 

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I am so happy with the amsoil I am in the process of setting up a dealership! Great oil!

Between that and the ESPAR, I am looking forward to a warm and smooth winter!

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100% stock on the road, DDI's & PE only installed when going offroad [... D/C BE PREPAIRED TO PROVE FAILURE CAUSED BY MY BOMBing. . ]

 

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John:
I know the number on the 15W-40 was diff from the data sheet. Let me explain. Earlier this year I was concerned if running the 5W-30 over the 15W-40 was a wise thing to do. I called my direct jobber and voiced my concern about the oil weight controversy and that the 15W-40 4ball test showed less wear. Notice that the 5W-30 4 ball test uses a higher RPM and temperature for the test. Direct Jobber said that he was told by Amsoil that when the 15W-40 was subjected to this more stringent test it showed . 40 mm wear. Direct jobber also said something to the effect that Amsoil will start using the same 4 ball wear test for all their oils so you have a better idea of how their various oils compare. I believe the 5W-30 4 ball wear test is a newer & "harder" test. Weather all this is true or not I don't know. Just relaying what my direct jobber had to say about the newest info he had on Amsoil's diesel oils.

These are my oil analysis results. Keep in mind that I use only Amsoil SDF 80 full flow oil filter (no bypass filter) and I change the filter per recommended by Amsoil.

The oil is 2 yrs old and has 16034 miles on it (engine has total 62,104 miles). I would have to dig through my maintenance log to see how much make-up oil I've added. Typically I add 2 qts every 6mos when I change the filter and send in sample.
CUMMINS
norm / high
Glycol: neg
%water: <0. 05 0. 3/2. 0
%fuel: <1. 0 2. 0/5. 0
viscosity @ 100c: 10. 9
soot: <1. 0
%OXD 7. 8
%NOX 21. 4
TBN 12. 9
Fe 42 23/69
Cr 4 2/6
Pb 8 13/40
Cu 4 17/60
Sn 1
Al 13 3/10
Ni 1
Ag 0
Mn 1
Si 8 5/15
B 41
Na 4
Mg 78
Ca 4261
Ba 1
P 1178
Zn 1385
Mo 0
Ti 0
V 0
Cd 0

These are my results. As you can see the numbers to the far right represent norm and high levels for CUMMINS (which was supplied to me from my Amsoil Sponsor). I am no expert at interpreting these results so if someone sees a problem starting or potential one from the numbers please let me know. The oil analysis report said no corrective action required. Oil is suitable for continued use, resample at next regular interval.

I've been kicking around the idea of getting the bypass filter, but I have also been wanting to see how far you can go on the extended drain intervals with only a high quality full flow filter. I plan on getting a new truck and it will definitly have the bypass filter installed upon arrival at home, with the synthetic fluids to follow after the break-in.

 

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Hope the results are not to hard to read. The why I typed the info and how it showed up after reply submitted is different. The first number is my analysis results. the next number (5/15) show Cummins acceptable levels (norm/high).

Sorry, I didn't realize this would happen.

 

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Thanks 1tuffram for posting your oil analysis results. #ad


My previous post noted the Four Ball Wear Test differences between the two oils. The explanation you received from your direct jobber seems resonable.

I believe I have made my decision... I'm going to the Amsoil 5W-30 HDD. Along with my Amsoil Dual Bypass filter system it should provide state of the art protection for my Ram.

PS: Many thanks go out to John S. who sold me the very trick billet aluminum block adapter. This piece is VASTLY superior to the supplied cast aluminum adapter.

 

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John, one last little tidbit to throw it to make you feel better--when all this oil discussion went on several months ago, Amsoilman talked about the viscosity behavior of standard vs synthetic oils at different temperatures. Seems like at operating temps (180-200f) the 5W30 was close to a typical 15W40 oil. If the ISB bearing clearances are based on standard 15W40 oil, then this should alleviate any concerns of this oil being "too light. " After I use up my 15W40 I want switch to the 5W30 (in about a year).

JJW_ND, I really appreciate your post--I've wondered how well Amsoil and Stratapore filters could keep wear metals in check. I've considered the bypass setup, but if you are only hitting 60-90ppm after 25K miles, then I don't see much merit in doing so. I think the main advantage of the bypass is fine filtration, down to 3-5 microns (is that correct?) versus 10-20 microns with the stratapore. Supposedly anything under 3-5 microns slips easily between bearings and doesn't cause engine wear. Of course the other advantage of bypass is extended drain intervals. I like the idea of changing mine occasionally, for a "fresh start," especially in the spring. How are your analysis numbers on soot and other contaminants?

I've sometimes wished there was a sophisticated oil analysis lab that could take it one step further and have a breakdown of wear metal particle SIZE and categorized the sizes in PERCENTILES. Of course this type of analysis would be quite expensive, if such a thing existed. This could really tell you how well you filters were working!

I am going with the same basic oil plan as JJW_ND, filters every 5-7. 5K and an oil change annually (25-30K).

[This message has been edited by Vaughn MacKenzie (edited 09-02-2000). ]

 

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1tuffram, am I reading it right that the alumminun count is high? ( 13 3/10 )Thanks
pete

 

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Pete:

yes the Al is high. My first sample with 6217 miles on the oil showed 11, then at 12,010 miles the Al was 13, and now at 16,034 miles still shows 13.

What can this mean? Anything to be concerned with?

 

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1tuffram, I don't know if its a concern or not. there are only a few parts made of alumminum so one of the engine experts needs to step in here. Pete

 

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1tuffram, when did you switch to a synthetic oil? I am just curious as to the milage. It is most often stated that you need a minimum of 10,000 miles before you switch oils. Some smarter than I say longer if your not working the engine very hard. Synthetics are very good but they are a two edged sword in that they can prevent proper breakin in some instances. Pete

 

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Vaughn, if memory serves, the Amsoil bypass filter, filters all the way down to 1/10 of a micron (unknown efficiency), and to 3 microns at something like 98. _% efficiency.

Several members posted a month or two ago that after they installed a bypass system they noticed their oil stayed cleaner, longer. #ad


My particular intrest in adding the Amsoil Dual Bypass system is relocation of the full flow filter from the OE location, as the Air Bulldog induction components restrict easy access to the filter. In all fairness, Doug Hofeldt (designer/builder of the Air Bulldog hood) has told me he changes his filter (OE filter location) by simply removing the turbo inlet hose. I want a more unencumbered working area. In other words, I don't want the feeling of building a ship in a bottle every time I change my oil filter. #ad

 

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John, on the dual bypass system (if I understand it correctly) 100% of the oil going to both filters circulates to the engine bearings whereas on the remote single bypass all the oil that goes through the remote filter returns to the sump without providing lubrication. It's a small amount, and I'm sure it doesn't compromise the engine at all, but I don't like the idea of some of my oil pressure & volume being "bled" off.

Hey you better bring that billet mount to show off tomorrow at Robs #ad


Vaughn