Here I am

Amsoil-Blackstone's comments

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Pullrite one more time....

Hitco Exhaust Blanket Question

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just swithced to Amsoil 15W-40 Synthetic @ last oil change. Prior oil was Dello 400 15W-40. I sent it off to Blackstone for analysis(5,023 miles on it). Blackstone commented that they felt the Amsoil would come back at about the same wear rates, except that the calcium would go up about 900ppm. I have realized about 1+ mpg gain in the past 1000 miles since switching to the Amsoil, so I know friction / oil drag is down Any idea why Blackstone's opinion is that wear rates will be close to the same,not significantly lower?

------------------
Steve in Spokane,01 4x4 Auto Quad Cab SB, NRA Life Member, 99- H-D FLHRCI Coalbalt Blue,00 XR650R Power Upped, Former PSD owner
 
Keep us informed on the results. I'm curious how the Amsoil stacked up against the Delo.

Sorry I can't help you with your question. Maybe the Delo is just that good for the short oil change intervals????

-Ryan
 
That's odd! Blackstone seemed happy as heck I switched FROM Red Line synthetic and then again FROM Valvoline/Cummins Premium Blue 2000 semi-synthetic TO Amsoil 15W-40 HDD&M.

When I was using Red Line 15W-40, I thought I was being scammed by Blackstone because the analysis results came back really ho-hum for such a seemingly high quality synthetic. The next oil change interval I split the sample, sending it to two different labs. The results were kind of interesting... a lot of the catagories were relatively close to one another however, some weren't. #ad


Anyway, subsequent oil analysis results improved substantially after changing to Amsoil 15W-40 HDD&M and again when I changed to Amsoil Series 3000 5W-30 HDD. #ad
 
Delo is pretty awesome when it comes to wear rates, be interesting how it turns out.
Gene

------------------
CPFF's Dowell Pin Jig Available in GLTDR Region! 1997 Cummins Dodge 4x4 "One Piece At A Time" Bombed & Amsoiled. Amsoil Executive Direct Jobber, Member of: NRA Business Alliance, GLTDR, WANTED: Wrecked Dodges.
www.awdist.com
 
Gene are you ok. You used the name of a conventional oil and awesome wear rates in the same sentence, without any mention of Amsoil #ad


Just giving you a hard time #ad

Ryan
 
I did an analysis of Delo400 15W-40 at my last change with 4,100 mi on it. Good report. Dumped in Amsoil 15W-40 HDD at the change. I will take a sample of the amsoil with similar mileage. Then post the results.
 
When I normalize iron per 1000 miles, I found that I got the same rate of wear with the new Delo 400 iso-syn as with Amsoil 15W-40 and Delvac 1. The only difference was that the sample (and change) intervals were 3200 miles for the Delo and 7500 miles for the synthetics. These results were from Blackstone so maybe they are regularly seeing this pattern. It would be interesting to see some Delo results after 7500 miles or longer. It is becoming pretty clear from oil analysis results posted at this site and the TDI site that Delo is the best generally available conventional oil.

------------------
1999 Quad cab 2500, SB, SLT, 4X4, 5-speed, 3. 54, tow and camper package, Lance 820 camper, Lance cabover stabilizers, Rancho 9000s, Airlift airbags,Reese Titan V hitch, Mag-Hytec differential cover with Amsoil 2000 75W-90 lube, Amsoil air filter
 
Cooker,
Funny you should mention Amsoil! Let me say this... ... ... #ad
LOL

I saw Micthell's rod bearings on Delo, after 2 years of pulling. What can I say, I was impressed.
Of course, he dumped the oil once a week!!
 
I'm glad somebody brought this up; I've been thinking about this for several days since getting back my last sample. I think it is important to take Blackstone's comments with a huge grain of salt. Blackstone is trying to do a good job, so they always say something just to give us food for thought. But their comments are either provided by an artificial intelligence computer program, or written by someone who is in a hurry and has to comment on dozens of samples per hour. Here's my evidence:
When I turned in a sample and told them I was especially interested in silicon (because of my K&N filter), the Blackstone comments that came back included: "Nice improvement in wear and silicon. " My Si was 7 after 7685 miles on this sample, compared to a "universal average" of 9, which is based on 5000 miles, so anything below 13. 5 would have been "better than average" for my number of miles driven, and the Blackstone comments were accurate. I then continued using the same oil for another 8121 miles, and silicon went to 8 on the next sample. But this time I didn't give Blackstone any hints about what I was looking for. Their comments came back "Silicon shows air filtration could be improved. " This comment doesn't make any sense at all. If "7" was a "nice improvement" at 7685 miles, then rising only 1 ppm to a total of "8" at 15,806 miles on the same oil should set off church bells in Philadelphia! Based on their averages, my silicon is at less than 1/3 of "average" values, so it's going to be hard to improve further. I do not mean to sound highly critical of Blackstone - I think they are doing good work. But I also believe that you can learn more by looking at several reports and thinking about YOUR truck and YOUR samples for an hour, than what a technician somewhere can tell you based on glancing at the same data for 15 seconds. I have NO DOUBT that if anything serious was happening like a coolant leak, then that is where the Blackstone technician's experience would kick in and they would quickly alert us to the problem. But I also believe that the desire to put some comment on EVERY sample (even "boring" samples where nothing interesting is happening) leads to casual comments that are sometimes a little off base.

P. S. - On wear rates, at 40k, mine are still going down with each sample, even using the same brand oil. If you read all the oil sample posts and jot down the numbers, you'll find the guys with more miles almost always have lower wear rates. While synthetic might get slightly lower wear rates, my reasons for using it are better cold starts, reduced turbo coking / hot shutdowns, and more time between changes, which makes it possible for me to find time to do the changes myself and keep others away from my baby. But I have no doubt that Delo and some of the other non-syns are great products too.


------------------
2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...

[This message has been edited by HC (edited 06-01-2001). ]
 
If you are using Amsoil, I'd highly recommend using Oil Analyzers to do your oil analysis. They are very familiar with the formulation chemistry and can do a better job of evaluating the used oil in your engine. They also provide a much more comprehensive analysis format, including oxidation/nitration and TBN information.



TooSlick
 
I just switched from Blackstone to Oil Analyzers and Twoslick is right on the money. Now if I could just get them to e-mail me the results I'd be in hoh heaven.
 
"They are very familiar with the formulation chemistry and can do a better job of evaluating the used oil in your engine. "





UMMMmm - let's be realistic here - as owners of Cummins powered trucks, I feel pretty comfortable in claiming that MOST here use either DELO, Rotella or Pennzoil in our trucks, with a lower smattering of various synthetic/blends filling out the numbers - so the notion that ANY oil analysis outfit should be "more familiar" with one brand than another is sorta off the wall, or strecthing reality...



Now, as *I* understand it, the outfit suggested above as being "more familiar" with the Amsoil lubricans is at least somewhat associated/affiliated with Amsoil in a greater degree than Blackstone or competing labs - so maybe THAT is more likely the reason for Amsoil and their reps steering folk in that direction.



This isn't intended as ANY slam at Amsoil, but the inference that ONE lab is somehow "more experienced" with one brand of oil than another is a stretch - they ALL see MANY samples of major oil brands tested DAILY from MANY different diesel engines - I hardly think ONE has any serious advantage over the others in that regard...
 
MGM sez:



"Gary,

If you do not have a base number to go from, I would think different labs could be way off. "



C'mon fella. yer a good guy. and I love ya - but GET REAL!



Do you REALLY wanna suggest that Blackstone and similar labs DON'T have access to the base oils, their individual compounds and additive packages? Do you REALLY wanna suggest that those labs are completely IGNORANT of the various aspects of the specific, individual oils they commonly test, EVERY DAY?



You wanna suggest or imply that they are too CHEAP or ignorant to simply go out and actually BUY an appropriate sample of the easily available oils in order to establish their OWN baselines for those oils in order to keep their tests in proper persepective?



Wouldn't YOU do that as an intelligent and BASIC preparation for doing oil analysis? *I* certainly would! Ya know, this oil analysis stuff REALLY isn't a "black art", or steeped in deep mystery - there ARE several DIFFERENT testing methods commonly used, and variations BETWEEN those methods MAY present somewhat differing readings - but all things considered, there's actually very little obscure or mysterious about the process.



So to continue to profess that ONE lab somehow has the "inside track" to secret information on specific oils that is outside the grasp of competing labs is pretty much elusive techno-babble.



I'm sure Amsoil is GREAT stuff, but for the fanatical representatives and/or supporters to continuously INSIST there's some mystical quality about the stuff that somehow requires or recommends the use of a "special" test lab for analysis if "proper" readings and interpretations are to be obtained is totally laughable... ;)
 
Last edited:
No, I wouldn't say all that, But I have been discussing samples with a lot of different guys, and it sure ain't dead nuts even, thats fer sure. Something must be different.



Remember though, we are talking PPM, Parts Per Million. It would not take much to show big differences.

Someone will send samples to all the labs at the same time one of these days, it is just a matter of time.



ALL the oil companies have the same opportunity to use the top shelf additives and ingredients.

They choose not to.

Gene
 
Gene sez:



"Someone will send samples to all the labs at the same time one of these days, it is just a matter of time. "



YUP - already happened - and the results were totally predictable!



There were *minor* differences in the readings, BECAUSE different labs use DIFFERENT equipment and testing procedures - certainly no great surprises there!



Same token, take yer Dodge to 3 different dyno shops to check power - one a Dynojet, another a Mustang - pick your own third type... All THREE are useful tools to measure developed power - and WILL provide useful baseline figures to check later modifications against... But I flat out GUARANTEE you that EACH will provide a DIFFERENT power graph, with DIFFERENT maximum power and torque readings! So what have we proved?



Same way different oil analysis labs will use different equipment, and MAY provide readings that differ somewhat from another lab down the road... The BEST use of ANY lab, is to establish baseline readings, stick with the same lab over a period of time to generate a data history to best evaluate what's happening inside your engine - otherwise, jumping from one lab to another trying for "better" readings is much like jumping from one doctor to another trying to get a diagnosis you like best. Mind you, I am talking about relatively MINOR differences in readings, NOT major or radical differences.



Now, if you REALLY wanna "test" several labs for repeatable accuracy, take SIX oil samples ALL from the same used oil at the same time. Send three of them to three different labs, wait for results. When the results arrive, send the three REMAINING samples to each of the same three labs AGAIN - then wait to see if each lab sends back the same readings as the FIRST time!



THAT will tell you lots more about reliability than merely comparing different labs with a single sample... ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top