An oil war worth starting?

[Dane]

I found a link to this oil discussion on the Chrysler C body dry dock. Very interesting discussion



http://p083. ezboard.com/ffjr1300ownersassociationfrm12. showMessage?topicID=536. topic

 

[Matt400]

Fun stuff, boy. . that GM engineer sure slammed Amzoil.

 

[amsoilman]

Fun stuff, boy. . that GM engineer sure slammed Amzoil.

What this guy says is interesting, but the "FACTS" are, Amsoil has been advertising and obtaining 25,000 mile/one year drain intervals for over 30 years, and they have millions of reports from customers that support this!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[redram]

The GM Engineer states that Chevy factory fills with a synthetic so that they can leave the engine oil cooler off the car - which he thinks is 'good' because it minimizes leaks, simplifies the layout and reduces cost. I think it just means that Chevy / GM is ( CHEAP.



He has very strong opinions - although not well based.



he talks about many engines that he has seen run 300 hours without any bearing damage - well, how many of you start your engine and run it 300 hours without turning it off? Not many - so his 'engine test' is jsut that - it doesn't duplicate how you use your vehicle.



He talks about the GM Oil Monitor - I hope everyone is aware that the current GM Oil Monitor system does NOT measure any physical quality of the engine oil - it is based entirely on an algorithm based on engine speed, oil temp, water temp, percent time at idle, percent time at highway wpeed, throttle position, air temp but never measures, oil viscosity, oil contamination, remaining oil additives, oil oxidation, etc.....



The GM Engineer needs to back up what he says with data, not just his opinion.



Also, he is assuming that all synthetics are the same - well, that is no different than daying that all conventional oils are the same and you should use the cheapest one because they are all the same!



This is just not true -



Oh well... free speech is protected in the US.



(Note - GF-4 spec is not all being regarded as an improvement by many of the oil companies at this point in time - it is not necessarily a better oil than the GF-3 ols currently out. )

 

[rowilson]

I like what the guy said about Amsoil having bits of gold in it for the price they want. I relate it to what they say about motorcycle helmets, got a $10 head buy a $10 helmet Same goes for my truck. I didn't buy a cheap truck therefore I don't use cheap oil. Just my preference to use Amsoil based on experience with turbos and wanting them to last. I used to use Redline until I spoke with a high end race engine builder. He built engines for a team where money was no object. They swore by Redline until he found that all the short blocks that they had stored that had used Redline were rusted on the cylinder walls whereas the ones they used Amsoil in were as clean as the day they were built. Not a scientific study by far but enough for them to change.

 

[J Shocik]

From Matt400

. . that GM engineer sure slammed Amzoil.

From my experience, that's not a good idea on this website!! :-laf :-laf I do like the synthetics for the better cold-start conditions, whether it be Amsoil, Mobil 1, or whatever... As an added benefit, it sounds like it's good for the turbo unit too!! Just my opinion... John

 

[MKoth]

The GM Engineer states that Chevy factory fills with a synthetic so that they can leave the engine oil cooler off the car - which he thinks is 'good' because it minimizes leaks, simplifies the layout and reduces cost. I think it just means that Chevy / GM is ( CHEAP.

I am guessing you don't have a lot of experience with what GM calls an oil cooler? There external coolers are very prone to leaks, exspensive to repair, and very expensive if a line breaks and pumps all the engine oil out onto the ground. Look under any 6. 5 Chevy diesel, the line going to the oil cooler wil be covered in oil, leaking from aroudn the facotry fittings. I have replaced 3 engines in delivery trucks so far this year due to blown oil cooler lines.



Internal oil coolers are a much better desighn, and tend to be more efficient, as well as more reliable, but also bring around the increased possiblilty of oil in the antifreeze, or antifreeze into the oil.



If a company can keep oil temps under control by using a specific oil , instead of an oil cooler, I would say it is a good idea(at least in a gasser anyways).



Just my humble opinion on the subject.

 

[amsoilman]

He has very strong opinions - although not well based.

The GM Engineer needs to back up what he says with data, not just his opinion.

He aslo doesn't know anythng about how Amsoil markets their products! How many other oil Companies can you buy oil directly from them... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... and have it shipped DIRECTLY to you?



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Sled Puller]

Whenever I hear anything from the Big Three, I remind myself that they build their vehicles so that a percentage of them live through the warranty stage, and then they want to sell you another one.

Longevity is not in their vocabulary, if it happens, it was an accident.

 

[Sled Puller]

And as everyone on that thread is kssing tail, because he is a GM engineer, therefore-automotive god, someone with a little common sense steps in and asks:



"And when do the body designers of the Aztec get their design license back? When is GM gonna design an intake that doesn't leak coolant out at whim? A fuel pump that lasts longer than a month? A CPI injector system that doesn't puke injectors in rotation? Oh, I got questions..... "



hehehhehe!

He is saying the same stuff that was said in 1972, when Amsoil was the only synthetic in town, and was recommending 25,000 mile changes. Now, EVERYBODY is making a "synthetic", and they are finally getting on the extended drains bandwagon, (Big Oil, and the car manufactorers. )that Amsoil pioneered 30 years ago.



History, and the competitions actions, is all the proof needed!

 

[smartineau]

And as everyone on that thread is kssing tail, because he is a GM engineer, therefore-automotive god, someone with a little common sense steps in and asks:



"And when do the body designers of the Aztec get their design license back? When is GM gonna design an intake that doesn't leak coolant out at whim? A fuel pump that lasts longer than a month? A CPI injector system that doesn't puke injectors in rotation? Oh, I got questions..... "



hehehhehe!

He is saying the same stuff that was said in 1972, when Amsoil was the only synthetic in town, and was recommending 25,000 mile changes. Now, EVERYBODY is making a "synthetic", and they are finally getting on the extended drains bandwagon, (Big Oil, and the car manufactorers. )that Amsoil pioneered 30 years ago.



History, and the competitions actions, is all the proof needed!

Sled Puller you beat me to it, the engineer guy works for GM does he really know what he talking about?



steve

 

[ThrottleJockey]

My wife's '94 Grand Cherokee has 110,000 on the dial when we took it in for a fuel pump and a service check up. Apparently they took a look inside one of the combustion chambers and did a compression test. They said to her, "Put a new engine in there, huh? The inside of your engine is as clean as a whistle and there is hardly any compression loss at all. "



Wifey gets home and says thanks for the Amsoil, been in there since 9000 miles.



I agree with Sled Puller. They don't want us to use synthetics so they can keep selling us cars. Automotive longevity from the Big Three?



Never happen.

 

[flattracker]

On my third dodge diesel and have run a whole slew of class 8's over the last thirty years, been having oil analyses done since way back before it became trendy. Have tried amsoil and have tried DElVAC one , two 55 gal barrels of the stuff to the tune of 2000. 00 . Have never got back an analyses yet that didn't have better wear numbers on the dino delo 400 or delvac 1300 than the synthetic. On diesels at least you will reach condemnation limits on soot and tbn long before you reach oxidation or nitration limits so there are no extended drain advantages either. The one gas vehicle I tried amsoil in a 98 tahoe actually reached high nitration levels on the amsoil quicker than the delo 400 and had much higher wear metals to boot. Synthetics are great for gearboxes and rearends and limited applications on engines for extreme cold climates but the cost advantages touted never seem to materialize. With the advent of group II+ basestocks and CI4+ oils not only do the synthetics not surpass the dino oils they don't even attain equal performance.