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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Anatomy of an APPS

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Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) 1997 dodge plug in cab

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This thread addresses the construction, possible disassembly, and possible repair of erratic or failed APPS units.



These throttle control units, APPS (Accellerator Pedal Position Sensor), most frequently seem to fail or become erratic in operation due to deteriorating contact between internal rotating fingers and the resistance track they ride on inside the APPS unit, causing surging, jerking or other erratic engine RPM deviations at varying speeds.



These APPS units are NOT intended to be disassembled, or repaired - they are considered a replace-only item - and should only be worked upon as a last resort, with the assumption that efforts to repair them MIGHT only make things worse!



BE FOREWARNED!



BUT, since they cost about $300+, it might be worth the gamble to at least attempt to restore proper function by use of injection of a contact cleaner to restore proper internal contact of the fingers to their respective resistance tracks, if that IS actually the cause of erratic engine behavior.



Here's what they consist of internally - this is the solid-state IVS (Idle Validation Switch) circuitry under the label cover - it's ONLY function is to signal the ECM when the accelerator pedal leaves, and returns to an idle condition/position:



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There is absolutely NOTHING the average owner can diagnose or repair in there, so no use even messing with it!



(EDIT!)



As the result of later digging into the APPS that occurred later in this thread, an actual schematicic is now provided back here at the beginning for those interested:




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For what it's worth, here's a pic of a section of ECM diagram as provided on a TDR thread related specifically to the ECM. That larger diagram included the various peripheral sensors, IAT, CPS, etc. , including this of the APPS equivalent circuit:



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You can see the APPS pinouts, as well as, on the extreme right, the corresponding ECM pins the APPS connects to. Interesting to note, that this diagram displays a simple switch to perform IVS operation, rather than complicated solid state electronic circuitry that makes up virtually ALL that solid state circuitry seen in the top pic of the APPS internals... ;)





Here is the other side, where the APPS control shaft is visible:



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As can be seen, I have made 4 cuts down about 1/8 inch with a hacksaw to gain access to the internals - but truth is, if your problem is serious enough to require this step, you're probably better of simply replacing the unit!



Here's what's inside:



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Visible are the internal printed circuit carbon tracks - and to the right, the removed cover with contact fingers shown.



Best approach to repair, seems to be drilling about a 1/8 inch hole HERE for spraying with a good contact cleaner:



(NOTE/WARNING! The APPS module uses a thin conductive membrane down between the printed circuit traces and the connecting pins - that conductive membrane *MIGHT* become compromised if contaminated with the spray described here - BE AWARE!)



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Another, overall view:



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The hole should be 1/4 inch from the top surface - the white gizmo seen in the hole is just there to show where the hole is, and how the hole lines up with the innards of the case, and will be about 1/8 thru the outer case.



A sleeve or other limiter to prevent the drill from extending too far inside the case is a good idea - there's not anything close to that point to be damaged, but caution is advised. It's unlikely that residue from drilling would present any problem, and the hole can be covered with tape or silicone sealant after application of the contact cleaner.



In applying the cleaner, only insert the tube (assuming you use something like what is displayed below) about 1/8 inch inside the case for widest spray pattern and best dispersal - after application, rotate the APPS control briskly thru it's range of travel to clean and disperse the cleaner for best effect.



Here's the stuff I use for this sort of work:



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All this can be done without removing the APPS unit from it's mounting bracket, so no adjustment or calibration should be needed. In actual practice so far, this "fix" is usually only temporary at best, and only seems to work about 25% of the time - but might buy a bit of time until an actual replacement is installed.



Good luck, hope this helps!​
 
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Things sure have changed since 1998. This APPS is a different design from the older resistive APPS. My advice on the previous thread to measure it using an oscilloscope does not apply to this sensor.



I did look up the IC mounted on the PC board and it is a micro-powered quad op-amp, made by National Semiconductor, part no. LP2902M.

Here is a link:

http://www.national.com/pf/LP/LP2902.html



If I could get a hold of one of these sensors I would trace out the circuit to see how it works and maybe come up with an alternative.
 
Gary, I sent you a PM with my address. The disassembled APPS is just right for reverse engineering. Hopefully there will be some answers on why these things fail and possible fixes.
 
After the dust has sorta settled from our extended autopsy and anatomy of the APPS setup on our trucks, a few conclusions have surfaced, at least on my part. The primary weakness of the APPS as far as I am concerned, is the CHEAPNESS of it's construction at the wear point. We have seen similar flaws in the way the 5-speed trannies are built, with the 5th gear problems - then there is the lift pump and VP-44 issues. That's just to name a few.



In a vehicle of this type - especially with what is considered a "million mile" engine, supporting that engine with external components rated at mere months is insane! Indeed - if the same quality and "vision" that gives us the APPS was in effect, I shudder to think where we will soon be with the ECM's and other computer controls used in our trucks!



The internals of the APPS are all built upon a paper-thin piece of plastic - using surface-mount electronic components - not bad in and of itself, but that SAME paper-thin plastic is also where the resistance pad is applied that is then in contact with the rotating "fingers" that drag abrasively and relentlessly against that extremely thin surface. The thin printed circuit material is sinply secured by adhesive to the internal surface of the APPS housing, and the one I show pics of above was already loosened all along about 1/4 of it's surface, extending into the area where the moving fingers travel - not good for reliable contact and long life!



The type of construction used in the APPS, in my mind, is equivalent to what you might expect in a $10 kid's toy whose lifespan is measured in DAYS - certainly NOT what you would expect on a million-mile engine, at a cost well above $300.



The fact that "Tejas Diesel's" friend, apparently a DC shop mechanic, was able on short notice to supply us with over a half-dozen replaced APPS units speaks VOLUME about their apparent failure rate!



There are FAR better ways to design and construct a device to do what the APPS does, that involve NO direct contact or potential wear points - inductive or capacitive - or even light shutter assemblies as used to tune stereo receivers would work nicely and over long stretches of time - a shame the APPS doesn't take advantage of that technology, instead of a simple carbon-path potentiometer that dates back before 1900...



And that's the way *I* see it! ;) :D
 
Well, I just got back from yet another trip to the dealer. I may be well on the way to securing the replacement due to "Surging" symptoms, which means that a precedent will have been made, and the rest of you that are going through this will have less of a fight with the dealer and their infamous "Could Not Duplicate" notation on the job ticket. Monday I go back with a dissected APPS and some other data.



I have been traveling with my laptop PC for the last two weeks with my Alex Pepper OBD-2 program, recording the TP% values (TP = APPS). I showed the service manager at my preferred dealership my data, recorded this morning of my sitting at idle (READ - foot off the throttle) and the TP% jumping up to 5% above idle. He was impressed with the program and the recording, and is going to be talking to some other people this weekend about the sensor issues. He agreed that I definitely have something that appears to be specifically APPS involved, and not some symptom of something else in the truck going south. He also thinks that another truck that he has in the shop for the same thing might indeed be the design of the APPS.
 
Originally posted by 15w40

Things sure have changed since 1998. This APPS is a different design from the older resistive APPS. My advice on the previous thread to measure it using an oscilloscope does not apply to this sensor.



I did look up the IC mounted on the PC board and it is a micro-powered quad op-amp, made by National Semiconductor, part no. LP2902M.

Here is a link:

http://www.national.com/pf/LP/LP2902.html



If I could get a hold of one of these sensors I would trace out the circuit to see how it works and maybe come up with an alternative.



Anybody else look at this site yet?



Looks like it is just a single chip (at least that is wherer the link goes), not the whole circut board, and the specs on it are interesting.



Evidently the thing works best when frozen, and not real good when hot, with a max temp of 85*c.



15w-40 - Ask for a sample. Looks like they offer them.
 
The LP324 quad opamp has been around for MANY years - I have 2 computerized antenna tuners here that use them - they are cheaply available right from Radio Shack where I last bought a couple of them...



Believe me, the APPS problem rests with the fingers and contact area, not the other circuitry! ;)
 
Sticks, The LP2902 op-amp on the circuit board looks to be the only active component inside the APPS and the 85*C maximum temperature specification is common for a plastic encapsulated integrated circuit. The silicon circuit chip inside the plastic will work at a much higher temperature but a problem may occur as the ambient temperature heats the op-amp above 85*C and then cools. Excessive mechanical stress in the plastic as it cools through the glass transition temperature will break the fine bond wires that connect the chip to the op-amp package lead frame. That is one thing I will check when I receive the APPS from Gary. I can believe that in some cases the APPS may actually see temperatures well above 85*C or 185*F, being located on the engine.



High reliability electronics will not use plastic integrated circuits but instead, use hermetic ceramic and metal packaged ICs. Changing to a hermetic package would raise the price of the op-amp from $0. 59 to $2 or $3. :eek:



I had better get off my geek soapbox now before everyone falls asleep. :)
 
Keep in mind that we have no original owner history on these replaced APPS units - and no idea what failure symptoms any of them displayed - we can only ASSUME they failed in the same manner most here are complaining about - surging and erratic RPM...



Of course, we also know where you get when "ASSUMING"... ;) :D
 
Well, that did not go well.



Dealer told me to first get the current reflash done on the trucks computer. If problem persists, the district dealer tech will come out and hook up the truck to life support and take it for a drive to see what he thinks, data map will be sent to DC for analyzing. Check speed sensors, grounds, and other things. Sensor replacement seems to be on the bottom of the list.



Well, I guess I clean her up, find another source of transportation for a few weeks, act like a Ford owner and give her to them and say, "I don't want her back until the problem is cured. "
 
I copied this from the other thread to get the info over here. It is possible to check the APPS for smooth operation.



Gary - KJ6Q, I would use an oscilloscope to measure the APPS. You don’t have to worry about connections to 1, 2 and 6. These are the idle validation switch and it never fails.



The ECM supplies 5 volts to connection 3 and ground to connection 4. Think of these connections as the two end points of a potentiometer with connection 5 as the wiper. If you supply a 5-volt source to 3 and ground to 4 and also ground your scope to 4, connect the scope input to 5. A good APPS will show a steady falling or rising trace as the APPS is moved. The chances are, you will see the line move at a steady rate where the APPS is not worn, and violent shifts where it is worn. If you can clean the APPS to restore the smooth response, this is the info everyone will want to know.



I made an edit to the terminal numbers for this newer sensor. It looks like they swapped terminals 3 and 5 from the older sensors. It should be possible to use the scope to check for a smooth response from the sensor. All the electronic junk in this newer sensor is only to replace the micro switch. I still need to finish the schematic to get more answers.



There is only one large resistive area that the ECM uses to find the throttle position. the smaller area next to the larger area is only used to make the wiper contact. The second set of small and large resistive areas are used to feed the circuit that replaces the micro switch. What was DC thinking when they came up with this design
 
OK - so only *one* of the tracks is used for accellerator position sensing - no redundancy or "validation" in using the other track in case the primary fails - in which case, a simple sampling via the terminal #'s you provided above SHOULD tell us all we need to know as to testing erratic engine RPM as pertains to the APPS...



At this point, are you as convinced as I am that the only practical "field fix" for erratic APPS function is related to the mechanical operation of the resistance pad and wipers, and applying cleaner - or do you see other potential problems at other circuit points?
 
I am not sure that cleaning off the grease is the answer. As pointed out before, the metal fingers are designed to scratch down through the grease to make contact with the resistive element below. If the grease is cleaned away the element may fail more quickly. Contact cleaner will leave behind some lubrication so it may work. Before trying the cleaning, check to be sure it needs cleaning. If the scope or ohmmeter shows erratic readings then drilling a hole and squirting in some contact cleaner might prolong the APPS life. I would proceed carefully with the cleaner and test the sensor as I was squirting it in. The circuit side of the module is not sealed from the resistive element side and the cleaner can migrate over to the electronics. I am not sure what effect it would have on those parts.
 
WELL, my comments regarding the "cleaner fix" were intended to apply only to APPS units already malfunctioning, and where nothing is lost in attempting to restore proper operation...
 
Guys, I think we need to seriously need to take heat into consideration here.



My problem is becoming frighteningly constant. Within 10 minutes of the thermostat opening up, and the radiator and engine coolant temperatures stabilizing, is when my surging starts, and stays at least 30 to 45 minutes until I am guessing the unit gets heat soaked. Total time from start of the vehicle depends on the outside temperature. Mornings it takes longer to start surging, but in the afternoons, about 5 minutes sooner.



I don't know if it is the circuitry is getting unevenly hot, or the contact surface is warping from something else expanding (either the contact surface heats up and expands before the housing does, or the housing warps) that is causing the problem.



Now I wish I had one of those super duper voltmeters with the temperature probe on it so I could see what temps it starts at.



I am going to try this reflash thing (no faith on my end with that one) at the dealer, then I am going to make an extension for the wiring and relocate the APPS assembly elsewhere in the engine compartment to try getting it away from the heat. Under the battery is looking REAL good.
 
sticks, if it happens reliably from temperature there may be an easy test to prove or disprove this. With the engine cold, use an electric heat gun or an ordinary hair dryer to heat the APPS before starting the engine. Then drive and wait for the problem. If it happens sooner than normal you are correct in thinking the APPS is the problem. If it happens at the usual time after the thermostat opens then it is probably not the APPS.



I hope to have some more info about the APPS in a few days. Right now my "to do" list is a little long.
 
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