And you thought you had a bad day

[DavidC]

Base Commander may be flipping hamburgers.


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Air Force Makes Costly Mistake
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[/URL] For Liberty Staff, 18 hours ago 3 1 min read 1340
Article from the Washington Free Beacon by Bill Gertz.

The Air Force lost several advanced F-22 stealth fighters that were damaged or destroyed during the hurricane that leveled Tyndall Air Force Base in Florida last week.

Air Force sources said 17 F-22s—one of the military’s most advanced stealth fighter jets—were unable to fly away to avoid the Category 4 storm and were damaged in hangars at the base that were not built to withstand major hurricanes.

Most of the stay-behind aircraft, including F-22s QF-16 target drones and Mu-2 aircraft trainers, sustained some damage and several were destroyed when Hurricane Michael came ashore near the base on the Oct. 10.

…

The jets cost around $150 million each, and when research and development costs of the F-22 over nearly 25 years since 1986 are factored in, the cost of the aircraft could be as high as $330 million

 

[GrantP]

I would really like to know how 17 F-22's weren't airworthy. I would understand one or maybe two under maintenance but 17? Makes you question our readiness.

And why a plane that expensive isn't stored in a hurricane proof hangar in that area is beyond comprehension. Sigh...

 

[JTMATTEL05]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/...e-feared-but-unknown-how-many-will-fly-again/

 

[DonFitzwater]

It's like the time I saw a tractor with a low-boy trailer coming into the USCG base in Corpus Christi to pick up a 41' UTB around noon on a friday.........he crossed a raised railroad bed and lightly scraped the trailer coming across empty. I immediately went inside and warned everyone in the office to move their vehicles outside the fence to avoid being stuck inside when the low-boy would undoubtedly become high centered on the railroad tracks while leaving. Needless to say, the only people that heeded the warning were low-level enlisted folks that wanted to go home on time. You should have heard the rest of the retards squealing at 1630 when the truck ground to a halt on top of the railroad tracks and they were all stuck at work until God knows when.

I'm sure most of the folks actually responsible for the maintenance of these high dollar aircraft had good ideas to truck them out, get them operational and flown out or otherwise but were likely "shot down" (no pun intended) by upper management. The airforce is probably corrupt with too many obama era appointees that shouldn't be in charge of a kite flying squadron much less multi million dollar aircraft.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

I would really like to know how 17 F-22's weren't airworthy. I would understand one or maybe two under maintenance but 17? Makes you question our readiness.

And why a plane that expensive isn't stored in a hurricane proof hangar in that area is beyond comprehension. Sigh...

Well said. This is so FUBAR that heads need to roll. On the surface it would seem they had plenty of advance notice and even if there was only a remote chance of being in the storm path why weren't the AC moved?

 

[Jim W]

You Know the DEM's are going to blame TRUMP for this fiasco!

 

[JTMATTEL05]

I am reading these posts that you all are saying “they should have moved them...” “they had enough time...”.
Just remember that these aircraft can’t go onto a trailer and be trucked out. The process to get these in that kind of state is so much preparation before hand and then having to get drivers contracted and then cleared to be authorized to haul this kind of equipment. The logistics behind all of this is just mind numbing.

And then to fly them out. I am in the USAF and I had family affected by the hurricane (they literally just moved to Tyndall AFB and lost everything) these planes are not something you can just throw a bandaid on to make them fly. They are extremely sophisticated machines that your taxes pay these Airmen (like myself) to tirelessly ensure these planes are safe for the pilots.

So I understand when you read this stuff on the news your like that’s stupid why not just do A,B,or C. But know the USAF doesn’t want to lose those planes as much as any other American. That’s our fighting power and if ones down there’s a ripple effect.

 

[Wayne M.]

I caught the tail end of this, and actually forgot about it till now.
Now in my line of work, I’ve seen some unaccountable FUBAR’s but this is exceptional! We’re not talking shelf parts and chump change here!

 

[BoeingDiesel]

I am reading these posts that you all are saying “they should have moved them...” “they had enough time...”.
Just remember that these aircraft can’t go onto a trailer and be trucked out. The process to get these in that kind of state is so much preparation before hand and then having to get drivers contracted and then cleared to be authorized to haul this kind of equipment. The logistics behind all of this is just mind numbing.

And then to fly them out. I am in the USAF and I had family affected by the hurricane (they literally just moved to Tyndall AFB and lost everything) these planes are not something you can just throw a bandaid on to make them fly. They are extremely sophisticated machines that your taxes pay these Airmen (like myself) to tirelessly ensure these planes are safe for the pilots.

So I understand when you read this stuff on the news your like that’s stupid why not just do A,B,or C. But know the USAF doesn’t want to lose those planes as much as any other American. That’s our fighting power and if ones down there’s a ripple effect.

Thank you for being a member of our military. I commiserate with your defense of the USAF as I would do the same, however, it begs the question of why were these AC not flight ready? Being somewhat dated, I still understand systems and put in layman terms there are MEL's for all aircraft.The nickel is going to land somewhere and unfortunately this one is on the tax payer.

 

[jhenderson]

Hard to believe there were that many unairworthy F22 aircraft in one place. They’re a rare sight to begin with. The base Commander has some explaining to do to justify that many grounded. As stated, the minimum equipment list for flight is a lot shorter than the one for a mission.

 

[DavidC]

I cannot remember having more than 1 B-52 not able to fly and that was because it lost an inboard flap that also removed half the rudder. Maybe SAC was a little more efficient.

Dave

 

[SnoKing]

It's like the time I saw a tractor with a low-boy trailer coming into the USCG base in Corpus Christi to pick up a 41' UTB around noon on a friday.........

Another Coastie?

SnoKing
ET1 1965-1969.

Boot, Alameda Winter 1965
ET School Gorton -Spring/summer/fall 1965
Washington Radio Station Late fall 1965/Winter 1966
Loran C School Gorton Spring 1966
Lorsta Sattahip, Thailand -Construction/first year crew summer 1966/67
60 day leave June/July 1967
Lorsta Point Arena, Ca Summer 1967 to Jan 3rd 1969.

 

[JTMATTEL05]

Yeah there was a lot down and I don’t know any details as that’s not my current location but I do know that with new generation aircraft there’s a lot of electronics and that’s how these aircraft fly. I was at a base with A-10’s and they can practically fly without a pilot. But when it comes to a stealth fighter it’s different. Your probably right about the base CC answering to higher ups. But it’s not crazy to have ~10 aircraft down due to preventative maintenance. Which could entail on making the plane not air worthy. I hope that majority of the a/c can be repaired and not last. It is a shame. But the strength of the storm exploded in the last 24 hours

 

[Learjet]

could they have been loaded in C17 or C5 and flown out that way?

 

[JTMATTEL05]

They would have to remove wings and also have an aircrew ready that was not being utilized for operational missions. Things like that take a lot of planning and there’s a lot of red tape. I don’t know it all. I do give credit to the maintainers for doing an excellent job at getting all the aircraft off the ground in such a short period of time! All of them are professionals and do the job to the best of their ability.

 

[BoeingDiesel]

Ground crew should be commended...a thankless job from the outside looking in.

 

[PBJ2500CTD]

Here are a couple links to articles that contain good information as to reasons for tucking the aircraft away. The technology is so advanced and parts are few and far between due to "political bad management" that it would be very difficult to slap these birds together and have them fly to an alternate location. Some of the design characteristics and system integration for the stealth aircraft are actually worse than trying to fly a brick and require some really complex flight control/stabilization systems. I still find is sad that a mission capable rate of just over 74% is reflected on such a sophisticated aircraft. Improvements are being made though.
As time passes it appears as though the aircraft that were left behind may not have suffered as much damage as first thought. Time will tell as they dig them out of the surrounding rubble.

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Dis...-afb-takes-f-22-pilot-training-to-next-level/

https://taskandpurpose.com/tyndall-f-22-destroyed-hurricane-michael/

At a couple locations on this grand planet we used to take our BUFFs, as long as they were "Armstrong Steering Capable" and depending on airframe model, the yaw dampers, or yaw and pitch SASS functional, throw some speed tape on them ("200 to 400 MPH" tape depending on whose tool box you sourced from), attach stuff with F4 tape, bubble gum, wax string, creative safetywire, then pile on one huge bunch of prayers, a big rubber band and stick for "launch effect" on the hardstand, hoping the flight crew had a good sense of humor...brief, shake hands, salute...and away they went down the long, long runway and hopefully have at least 6 functioning engines remaining shortly after liftoff to make it back in one piece if something REALLY bad went wrong. Heck, I think that process was for quick turn on mission aircraft, too...just add fuel to the list. Hanger queens - cann birds - excepted; they were kept to a minimum though. Ah, visions of the Gray Ghost on Anderson AFB, Guam...

 

[DonFitzwater]

Another Coastie?

SnoKing
ET1 1965-1969.

Boot, Alameda Winter 1965
ET School Gorton -Spring/summer/fall 1965
Washington Radio Station Late fall 1965/Winter 1966
Loran C School Gorton Spring 1966
Lorsta Sattahip, Thailand -Construction/first year crew summer 1966/67
60 day leave June/July 1967
Lorsta Point Arena, Ca Summer 1967 to Jan 3rd 1969.

Yep