Another legal towing question

[Savannahallyce]

I have researched and researched for answer however everyone has different opinions.#@$%!
I have an F-250 6.7 diesel and I am buying a living quarters horse trailer. I need to be able to legally tow this however I can't get real answers. The trailers gvwr is 18,000, however I will NEVER haul more than 2 horses and some equipment so no more than another 3,000 lbs. The truck tows the trailer with absolutely no problems and can stop it very easily. My trailer brakes will also stop my whole rig!

Weight
Trucks ratings
GVWR 10,000
Front GAWR 5,600
Rear GAWR 6,100
GCWR 24,000
Tire Maxload 3,595

Actual weights
Front 5000
Rear 6800
GCWR 20,000

The truck and trailer are registered for private use and are exempt for Commercial because the trailer is registered as an RV. I am also getting my Texas Class A Non-CDL license
In Texas can I register my trucks registration weight for whatever I want or will they only register to the GVWR? I do know if I get pulled over for a truck over my registration weight I will get ticketed. I will pay for the upgrade cost.

All of that being said can I get a ticket for being over my rear axle GAWR? How will they figure if I'm over my maxload (tires) I'm assuming they will weigh the rear axle and divide by 2.

And the most controversial- if the truck has been structurally modified to withstand heavier load can I get this legally recognized?

How can I legally drive this truck and trailer?

 

[Tuesdak]

What does the truck weigh unloaded? And welcome to the SRW limitations on the payload and GVWR. After the marketing and politics for the SRW GVWR number you will find that tires are generally the limiting factor to the GAWR. Most will say the GAWR is the real limit of your pickup making sure the tires are up for it. Looks like your tires are up for it. The answer you don't want to hear is you need a different combo for this trailer or move weight around. This includes moving the trailer's axles forward. Everything else you read about is that grey area that turns your hair grey.

By the numbers it looks like the truck could weigh 6000 LBS max if the trailer weighs 18000 LBS. As you pointed out that is the max weight so you could be more or less than that depending on what you load into the trailer. You are under the 24000 GCWR by 2 tons at 20,000 GCWR you posted. Yet, you have gone over payload, GVWR, what the vehicle itself is rated for. Clearly the trailer is leaning on the truck too hard. (I assume you don't have a heavy flatbed or tools in the bed of the truck causing the overload in the rear and GVWR overage.)

Shift the load of the trailer to put less weight on the truck's and truck's rear axle. This would be by stronger WD hitch springs for a bumper pull and/or moving weight around in the trailer esp. for other hitch types.

IMO you don't have so much as a weight/overload problem, but, a trailer balance problem that is putting too much weight on the truck vs. it's own axles. Solve that with the trailer or throw a dual rear wheel truck at it to be bulletproof legal. Even a DRW truck isn't really solving the unbalanced trailer going over the recommended 3600# 20% lean on the truck hitch. But the recommended number isn't printed on the driver's side door... Trailer sway and handling is affected when they are not balanced to the point they will jackknife and toss you off the road if the wind shifts etc.

One more thing: Trailer brakes always work except when you need them the most. Wires rub through and short out, magnets short, plugs fall out. Take it from experience that the brakes will get a lot of TLC and you leave room to stop without them always.

 

[SSage]

Your over analyzing it. The truck and trailer needs to stay under the registered weight to be legal, but most states like mine exempt RV or private use. In Alabama I can drive a 30,000 pound class A with a normal DL. Check with your state. I just went to the DMV place and they told me how to plate my stuff. Just a normal cheap utility trailer plate here on my 21,000 GVWR toy hauler, they charge based on value not weight for RV's and horse trailers here.

Don't overload your rear tires though, sounds like you need a dually.

 

[jelag]

Here's my thought after having several sales staff with one ton trucks and trailers... we always towed heavy.. never in 20 years did a scale house ever give us a bad time during an inspection with a 1 on flat bed towing a goose neck trailer that was heavy.. and exceeded the GVW that the pickup was rated for.... as long as the tires/wheels/axles on the trailer were correct and the rear of the 1 ton wasn't overloaded... in our case we had dually's... and we've never been personally stopped as a private citizen when we weren't towing commercially....

We had one of the Dodge Dually's towing a trailer with (2) 12K axles...w/disc brakes... it was always at 18K lbs (trailer alone) and often closer to 20K... it felt safe... we drove it... we scaled it... never had a problem... I'm talking (4) trucks on the road doing close to 40K miles a year each for years... traveling 6 western states and 2 Providences of Canada... as long as the cab card was right.. and the plates were correct and legal... we sailed through....

SO WITH ALL THAT SAID.... I believe that you should see that you feel safe... and that once you do that... go for it... Only the commercial enforcement guys might see/know your doing something that might not be right... but since your not commercial they are going to drive right past you...

just my 2 cents worth....

 

[jacknife]

You are a non commercial truck and trl. you do not have to go into weigh stations and troopers are not going to pull you over to weigh you. They have enough to deal with , with commercial rigs then to bother you. Believe me 35 yrs of going into scale houses never seen it!

 

[GAmes]

By getting your non-commercial class A and registering the truck for your weights you have covered all your bases complying with TX laws IMO. In all the level 1 roadside inspections I have had, not one officer has looked at the weight ratings for my tires or the axles for that matter. They have added up the GVWRs of truck & trailer to verify GCWR was less than 26,000 on a couple occasions since I don't have a CDL-A. The odds of you ever being checked are slim to none since you don't go through scales (although there are a couple of states that require ALL pickups to cross). The TX non-commercial class A will cover you if there is a wreck however. As for pin weight, there is no doubt that a horse trailer with living quarters (just like an empty toyhauler) will exceed the standard 20%. I've towed a lot of them, it isn't a factor.

 

[jacknife]

There are no states that require all pickups to enter a scale house period! Where are folks coming up with this ?

 

[GAmes]

NE is one. From; https://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/media/8188/truckinformationguide.pdf page 13


Which vehicles need to stop at weigh stations?
All pickup trucks with a factory-rated capacity of more than one ton, pickup trucks pulling
trailers, truck-tractors, and trucks must stop at weigh stations. This includes rental trucks
such as Ryder, Penske, or U-Haul, whether or not they are involved in commerce. Recreational
vehicles are exempt.

 

[BigPapa]

If Gary says something about hauling with a pickup, he's going to be right, I guarantee you.

Saw the rig in another post Gary. Still looking good.

 

[GAmes]

Thanks. One of these days it will get some new paint, but for the time being it isn't a high priority.

 

[jacknife]

Those trucks all are working in a commercial capacity. Some 5 th wheels are pulled by MDTs and class 8 trucks which are much larger then any pickup out there and they do not HAVE TO CROSS A SCALE . They are not involved in commercial commerce and are not subject to have to enter scale houses. End of story !

 

[GAmes]

I guess you missed the part that RVs are exempt? Here it is again.

All pickup trucks with a factory-rated capacity of more than one ton, pickup trucks pulling
trailers, truck-tractors, and trucks must stop at weigh stations. This includes rental trucks
such as Ryder, Penske, or U-Haul, whether or not they are involved in commerce. Recreational
vehicles are exempt.

The OP is pulling a horse trailer. The LEO in the scale house has no way of knowing that it is registered as an RV. If it was me, I would roll across the scale knowing that there is a 99.99% chance that I'll get a green light and be on my way. IMO, that is much better than being chased down by an LEO and the hassle of being pulled over. Since you are there anyway, it might be a good opportunity for a vehicle equipment check, you know, lights, horn, tires, etc.

 

[BSeyler]

This is the sign approaching each direction at the scales in Nebraska City and North Platte, Nebraska. I have seen pickups with trailers pulled over just past the scale. Other times, they fly on by. I always stop with my private pickup and trailer and have always gotten a green light.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Today on the way North from Trinidad CA to Crescent City CA they had a roadside check, they pulled us and anyone they wanted into a rest area. They had a portable scale. They had me put the steer axle and then drive axle, then the trailer tandem one axle at a time and got out the tape measure for OAL.

When he came to the window, he said that its 65' exactly!! Told him that the 20 on radio said Smokey had an inspection going North bound so I slid the 5th wheel up!! want to see my log book? he smiled & said to Truck On.

This Guy was going lots slower than we were :-laf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T9Q-ylmAVk

 

[10-9jc]

If you want to get the info direct from the horse's mouth (pun), you might ask "Big5er" on the Escapees HDT forum.
He is a TEXAS Commercial Enforcement Officer (LEO) - and is very honest and up-front with the "official" word on technical stuff.

You could join the SKPs forums (free) to post and ask - but note: If you wish to ("PM") send a Private Message you must have a minimum of 3 posts.

Here's a thread running there with a different question - ("Class B Non-commercial Drivers License") - you can find him posting/responding to that thread -

http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=122165

~

 

[photowrite]

Today on the way North from Trinidad CA to Crescent City CA they had a roadside check, they pulled us and anyone they wanted into a rest area. They had a portable scale. They had me put the steer axle and then drive axle, then the trailer tandem one axle at a time and got out the tape measure for OAL.

When he came to the window, he said that its 65' exactly!!
Snip...

There it is folks, particularly for the naysayers, a firsthand account from somebody being stopped/checked/weighed in a private RV! (Unless BIGNASTY was not in an "RV", but some other type of commercial trailer?)

As I and a few others have said... Unlikely sure, but possible and legal, yes. Could a citation have been issued if something was out of line? Certainly.

Am I overly concerned about being slightly over GVWR (but well under GAWR and tire capacities) with my camper mounted? Nope. My suspension doesn't sag, truck looks 'right', drives well and is safe. But could I have a small problem if weighed and over one of the federally certified ratings on the door sticker, yes.

 

[AMink]

Today on the way North from Trinidad CA to Crescent City CA they had a roadside check, they pulled us and anyone they wanted into a rest area. They had a portable scale. They had me put the steer axle and then drive axle, then the trailer tandem one axle at a time and got out the tape measure for OAL.

When he came to the window, he said that its 65' exactly!! Told him that the 20 on radio said Smokey had an inspection going North bound so I slid the 5th wheel up!! want to see my log book? he smiled & said to Truck On.

This Guy was going lots slower than we were :-laf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T9Q-ylmAVk

California has a 65' rule? Is that for bumper pull, 5th, or both?

 

[BIGNASTY]

When I was figuring out the length of the trailer + the 38.8 ft MH I called Comiefornia they said to keep the Nose to Tail at 65' or under and you'll be fine. When we were traveling through Comiefornia I did see several 3 axle Bus type Motorhomes (most of the 3 axles are 45') pulling what looked to be at least 25' trailer. Did they get away with something? did the Barney's not care or want to take time from eating doughnuts to mess with something ?
Other states back East will be another story, several said that 65' would be fine if I stick to designated Hwy's some even said that I could buy a temporary permit to pass through their 60' state, the cost wasn't all that much something like $20.00 just another way of stabbing people in the wallet I would imagine.

Talking with people on other MH RV sites said don't worry about it just drive through they rarely stop RV's, It would be my luck that my name would be Rarely that day.

For the ones that say the Barney's don't bother RV's there might be some truth to that but get in an accident or PXXX a Barney off AND THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO!! THEY HAVE A GUN, PEPPER SPRAY, TASER & TICKET BOOK AND IM SURE A FAMILY MEMBER THAT WORKS OR OWNS A TOWTRUCK SERVICE.

My MH is 38' 8" its a two axle, the trailer is 26', OAL Nose to Tail im 65' on the nose.

I Spent the better part of a day calling states asking the State DOT people about their length laws.

You asked about Comiefornia?
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/trucks/trucksize/length.htm

 

[SSage]

California is a country all to it's self. They also have their own emission standards and enforcement is probably the most strict, they try and restrict old diesel powered trucks too, lower truck speed limits etc. Hell on Class 8 truckers running classic rigs. But, they allow motorcycles to lane split. My simple solution.... I stay out of California in my rig. They have been going beyond federal dot requirements, haven't kept up with the actual fines though. I moved to the SE for a reason, my whole family got out of southern cal long ago.

RV's supposedly are exempt, but I never understood how a 40,000 pound class A RV with air brakes does not require at least a road test driving it and an air bake endorsement. But, it does not require a upgraded license here in Bama last I checked. I lived in some states that required a non-commercial.

 

[AMink]

California is a country all to it's self. They also have their own emission standards and enforcement is probably the most strict, they try and restrict old diesel powered trucks too, lower truck speed limits etc. Hell on Class 8 truckers running classic rigs. But, they allow motorcycles to lane split. My simple solution.... I stay out of California in my rig. They have been going beyond federal dot requirements, haven't kept up with the actual fines though. I moved to the SE for a reason, my whole family got out of southern cal long ago.

RV's supposedly are exempt, but I never understood how a 40,000 pound class A RV with air brakes does not require at least a road test driving it and an air bake endorsement. But, it does not require a upgraded license here in Bama last I checked. I lived in some states that required a non-commercial.

The lower speed limit for vehicles towing is ridiculous. 55 when everyone else going, or trying to go, 65 or 70. And they will pop you for speeding. It's not bad on multi-lane highways but the smaller roads like 395 north out of Reno is not good. I'm going 55, holding up traffic, with nowhere to turn off. That's when people get impatient and try to pass on solid lines, curves, and who knows what else.