Another nail in our coffin....

[24V-DSL]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/12/23/soot.climate.ap/index.html

 

[SEmerson]

The whole concept is so weak. It is a shame CNN touched it. It just gives the tree huger something to wine about.



AND what about this Oo.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0,13026,1108853,00.html



All I can say is we are doing our part to save the earth.

 

[Rman]

weak concept? you're kidding right?

 

[FFutch]

NASA belly-aching about soot. How much crap do they spew into the atmosphere when they launch a shuttle or rocket. Screw it,i'm trading my vehicles in on a horse and buggy. But wait the tree huggers then will ***** about the methane emissions from the horse ... Doug

 

[Rman]

what about all the cattle? A field of those god awful creatures could single handedly end humanity... according to some "research".

 

[SEmerson]

Originally posted by rhickman

weak concept? you're kidding right?

The whole point of there concept is soot on the snow causes it to melt faster. Thay are talk about Levels of airborne soot as high as about 100 parts per billion were found in the Alps. What about a hot turd from a polar bear... ... ... Think of the damage that causes.

 

[Rman]

well this weak concept is the driving force behind billions of dollars being spent, and I guess to some... wasted, on the development of ULSD fuel. Try to look past the greenie whining and realize that maybe something we do now, can be improved. The greenies sure don't help their cause by looking like fools for complaining about everything.



Soot can stay in the air for a long time, generally just 3-12 months depending on it's size, but some stays in the air for years or decades. These particles reflect light that normally would be used by the earth (to heat stuff and plants sure like it), to reduce this PM (particulate matter) would be a good thing. ULSD and the use of the new particle "filters" are some of the ways they are trying now. And we're not just talking heat and evironment stuff, soot is a huge factor in cancers and lung disease, but for some it's all in what "research studies" you read.

 

[SEmerson]

OK on a serious note. My problem with all this is that for very Little benefit we in the US go thought emission hell. While many other country's do nothing. And besides a 3rd world county will probably destroy us before we make this planet unlivable. So lets enjoy it here. :-{}

 

[rbattelle]

Although I agree that a reduction in soot production is generally good for all (I agree it probably causes breathing problems and maybe cancer), I question the validity of the conclusions of this particular research. Anyone have access to the paper that was actually written about it? The CNN article doesn't explain anything.

 

[Rman]

actually we're way behind on the emissions hell. It's catching up to us now. Europe has been using ULSD fuel for like a decade. Ours will be in full effect in 08 i think it was. I understand everyone's gripe though. I think it's just another method for them to squeeze another dollar out of the little guy. However, in the truest sense, their is method to their madness. It's just the fact that WE have to pay and the REAL culprits get away with it. I'm talking big businesses, NASA, and other big polluters. I work on an Air Force Base and have to have emissions checks done so i can drive to work... . I love how they tote this base as "emissions compliant" mean while 30 F-16's atleast launch here a day... yeah that's real emissions compliant!



Again selective enforcement, we have money so they want to take it, and that's just another reason too.

 

[SEmerson]

I see you are taking this much more serous than I am. I do agree with may of your points. I too am in many was Conservative. But with the CNN report we will be the losers here in spite of the fact that we are a minor problem in the whole schema of things. Tree huger and activist will only see that diesel smoke stack. It would affect us totally different if it showed a flaming oil fire in the middle east. WE will always be the loser here because as consumers we have no lobbying power. And politics is all about who can afford their own politician. And tree hugers will not look at the whole picture just that smoking truck will stick in there minds.



Steve

 

[Rman]

another way to look at it... we are a minor problem, however it's a simple problem to fix compared to the rest of the scheme. By simply improving the fuel we burn it makes it relatively easy to "clean" up the emissions. But you're right, all the greenies are going to see that nice smoke stack in the article then off they go in their doom and gloom doomsday portrait. We get singled out as the bad guys and before you know it they've passed legislation outlawing outdoor BBQ's or something else just as rediculous.



The reason I take it a little seriously is because of passed research i've done for my thesis on the topic. I'm a little more informed than the average joe, but my studies have taken me elsewhere and air quality no longer tickles me to read about. Though some of the "studies" can be amusing. You'd think we'd all be dead in 5 years the way some of them paint the future.

 

[Boomer II]

Wait a minute here, I'm just a bit concerned about this Polar Bear turd thing, I mean we're gonna be OK right?

 

[JPope]

Soot

Wonder how those numbers compare to a large Volcano eruption



Remember reading something about Mt. St. Helens and Pinatubo (sp) mass ejection figues, and even though I took my boots off to continue above 10, it seemed like it was a lot more particulate count (expressed in tons!!!). Guess that doesn't affect anything unless you are a ROCKET scientist.

 

[David Oxland]

It seem to me that one thing that really helps to aggravate the general public and attracted their very focussed attention is that sight of a truck (like the one shown in the first post) belching a ton of ***** from a poor operating engine and following behind it for a few miles or being smoked and noised out by one of our brothers getting his jollies.



Keep bringing undue attention on ourselves and we'll be more and more for it.

 

[SEmerson]

Originally posted by Boomer II

Wait a minute here, I'm just a bit concerned about this Polar Bear turd thing, I mean we're gonna be OK right?

Just expressing how it must melt allot of snow and ice. Especially while it is still steaming

 

[Boomer II]

We need to stand up to these goofballs, not cow down like we're from France or sumpthin. PETA, ELF and all the rest are nut cases as far as I'm concerned. Every one of them owns a car, (polution), lives and works in a structure, (habitat) and takes up space and uses natural resources. If they wanna help the earth they should all commit suicide, that would free up more space for Dodge truck owners.

 

[SEmerson]

Originally posted by Boomer II

We need to stand up to these goofballs, not cow down like we're from France or sumpthin. PETA, ELF and all the rest are nut cases as far as I'm concerned. Every one of them owns a car, (polution), lives and works in a structure, (habitat) and takes up space and uses natural resources. If they wanna help the earth they should all commit suicide, that would free up more space for Dodge truck owners.

AMEN and pass the ammoOo.

 

[Doc Tinker]

Ban asphalt. . it allows large areas of snow to melt, causing global warming, not to mention the fact that it absorbs heat.



While we are at it, get rid of road salt.



Doc

 

[SMorneau]

I hate the extremist. People who try and act like they know something but don't even have a remote clue. Instead they run around like the sky is falling. They want to spend billions supporting the Kyoto treaty in this country while half of the same money in other countries (like China) would clean up the earth more than cleaning up what relatively clean industry we still have in this country. They keep talking "global" but don't even think about it globally. Given that fundamental flaw in logic, its hard for me to entertain these people and the "science" they would have us believe.





The sky is not falling and these people should accept the universe and all things in it are going to change and stop feeling guilty for being here.