Any Lazar/Smith Traction bar users?

[HEMI®Dart]

What are I doing wrong? I can't keep the bars from loosening up.



The front & rear mount are rock solid. I'm I being too conservative w/ the pre-load: 1/2 turn.



I can provide the thread & pitch of the nuts another time.

 

[ENafziger]

Not sure. You're setup looks a little more substantial than mine. Mine have a little locking tab, and no cable safety loop. Mine do loosten up alot. In fact, the internal threads are ruined on the passenger side on mine. I'll get around to fixing it one day. I attributed mine loosening to using the truck harder offroad than most? Maybe this isn't true if your's are loostening as well.

Have you tried red loctite?

--Eric

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Eric, I haven't tried Red Loctite, But with this set-up I shouldn't need it.



Getting the Thread & Pitch from Lazar/Smith was like pulling teeth.



Thread is 1-1/8"-7. I couldn't come close to finding these locally, so I ordered them from McMaster Carr.



P/N 94895A857 Zinc & Yellow Plated Grade 8 Steel Hex Nut 1-1/8"-7 Thread Sz, 1-11/16" Width, 31/32" Height. Pack of 5 $ 11. 14



P/N 93839A039 Zinc Yellow Plated Grade 8 Steel Thin Hex Nut 1-1/8"-7 Thread Sz, 1-11/16" Width, 39/64" Height. $ 4. 45 each (Jam Nut)

 

[ENafziger]

Thread is 1-1/8"-7. I couldn't come close to finding these locally, so I ordered them from McMaster Carr.

Great!!! I may have to try the same thing. Thanks for posting!

--Eric

 

[HEMI®Dart]

1-11/16" open end wrench for the nuts.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I spoke to Mike....

He feels ½ turn pre-load is too conservative. Said to put a jack under the bumper raise the truck up. Give the bars about 1 revolution pre-load & tighten the nuts up.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Eric, Just go to Home Cheapo or Tractor Supply get some cable and a cable clamp. It's inexpensive. I have the Lazar/Smith restraining 304 stainless steel straps, but seem short and the cable crimp won't pass through the hole in the bar?

 

[ENafziger]

He feels ½ turn pre-load is too conservative. Said to put a jack under the bumper raise the truck up. Give the bars about 1 revolution pre-load & tighten the nuts up. <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Great! Will do. I'll probably dive into this when I pull out the transmission to send to Mike in a few weeks!

--Eric

 

[HEMI®Dart]

He feels ½ turn pre-load is too conservative. Said to put a jack under the bumper raise the truck up. Give the bars about 1 revolution pre-load & tighten the nuts up.

How can raising the rear bumper simulate a load in the bed?



Or am I missing something?

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I followed Mike's directions about raising the rear up and setting the pre-load. They seem to be locked in nice. I took the split lock washer out because the bars were loosening up, but yet the nut & jam nut were tight. The split lock washer was galling the end of the bar. I grabbed some extra 3/16" coated cable at work and made new restraints. You'll notice anti-Seize on the nuts.

 

[ENafziger]

How can raising the rear bumper simulate a load in the bed?

Or am I missing something?<!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Lifting the truck a little takes some of the strain off of the suspension. When you preload the bars, you are actually pressing the rear axle back slightly... such that when your truck is loaded heavy, the bars actually go into compression somewhat.

If you snug the bars up with the truck on the ground, the bars should be slightly loose when you jack the rear bumper up. Thus, jacking up the truck first, and then preloading lets you get a little better preload.

--Eric

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Lifting the truck a little takes some of the strain off of the suspension. When you preload the bars, you are actually pressing the rear axle back slightly... such that when your truck is loaded heavy, the bars actually go into compression somewhat.



If you snug the bars up with the truck on the ground, the bars should be slightly loose when you jack the rear bumper up. Thus, jacking up the truck first, and then preloading lets you get a little better preload.



--Eric

I liked the feel of the way the pre-load went w/ the rear bumper raised up. So far they are rock solid.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Would Lazer/Smith T-Bars be Tough on U-Joints? This one is a lubed for life. It lasted 2 years. My OEM lasted 215,000 miles. This is the far rear one that attaches to the rear end.

 

[Shadrach]

How do you find the ride with those bars? I have the Glacier Diesel bars on my 03. They have the dog bone on the front end so they swivel a bit. When the truck is empty on a rough road it is a bit harsher but with the travel trailer attached it gives me more control. Shad

 

[PC12Driver]

I had a set on my '01.

- I couldn't keep them tight. The jam nut stayed tight, but if you notice, the side without the nut is wallowing out the threads in the bar. Those threads will get really loose over a couple of years.

- The axle pinion needs to be just about parallel with the output shaft. More than a couple degrees and you'll accelerate the wear on the u-joints. More than a little preload on the bars and you're there...

- The ride was improved with the bars. They really planted the rear of the truck. Until they wallowed out and started clunking around in between re-tightenings.

I finally took them off the truck for fear of the threads completely stripping out. That, and the powder coating was horrible. There were large areas of rust bubbling under the coating after the first year, and by year number two most of it had flaked off as the bars rusted. If the coated outside was that bad, I'm sure the untreated inside was much worse. There has to be better alternatives out there.

 

[JR]

Would Lazer/Smith T-Bars be Tough on U-Joints? This one is a lubed for life. It lasted 2 years. My OEM lasted 215,000 miles. This is the far rear one that attaches to the rear end.

To me that joint looks really dry, which was most likely what siezed it up. I prefer greasable joints, the little bit that comes in them from the factory just isnt enough for my liking.

 

[PC12Driver]

Keep in mind that the non-greasable joints have tougher seals on them. The grease inside shouldn't go anywhere if the u-joints are installed correctly (don't mix the caps, don't add any extra grease, press on instead of pound) until the seals start to fail. Like he says, the factory ones lasted 215k. A good quality replacement should too.



With a constant speed input, the output side of a u-joint will accelerate and decelerate when operated at an angle. Your drive shaft does not rotate at a constant speed. But the second u-joint at the diff works opposite - it cancels the accel/decel of the driveshaft and the result is a smooth output to the differential if the two u-joints are operating at the same angle. If the output shaft of the center bearing and the prop shaft of the differential are within 1/2*, then they'll rotate smoothly (good). Any more than the 1/2* difference and the joints are basically hammered every 1/2 rotation of the drive shaft as they accelerate and decelerate (bad). The bearings are pounded, extra heat is built up, and the seals will fail.



So when Mike says to lift up the truck and then crank down on the bars an extra turn, the bars are going to push the axle way out of spec once the suspension is loaded back up. Put something heavy in the bed and the u-joints will go further out of alignment, plus they'll have the extra load to deal with. Not the best idea for a daily driver.

 

[JR]

Looking at the picture he provided, there has been no grease in that joint for a while. Factory universals always seem to last much longer than aftermarkets, I agree on that. Ive just never had any luck with sealed aftermarket universals. If that one had been serviceable, and he would have been able to throw a couple of shots of grease in it every other oil change or so, I would be willing to bet it would have lasted much longer.

 

[Bob4x4]

I don't think traction bars have a place being on a street driven daily driver. Install some well designed springs and shocks. Leave the solid mounted traction bars on the strip where they belong

 

[PC12Driver]

Looking at the picture he provided, there has been no grease in that joint for a while. Factory universals always seem to last much longer than aftermarkets, I agree on that. Ive just never had any luck with sealed aftermarket universals. If that one had been serviceable, and he would have been able to throw a couple of shots of grease in it every other oil change or so, I would be willing to bet it would have lasted much longer.

Universals don't use grease. As long as the seals are good, no grease gets out and no junk gets in. Everything stays slippery and clean until the seal rots and the grease gets contaminated. Or the bearings wear, which will wallow out the seal and cause a leak as well. If you add a couple shots of grease to a serviceable joint every so often, the old grease has to go somewhere. And that's going to be through the seal, which will weaken the already softer seal further. And that's okay, but now you'll have to grease them on a schedule to keep the contaminants out. I guess it's all about what makes you feel better in the end. I prefer the durability of the non-greasable joints, but I know that having something with a zerk on it is comforting to others. But then there's the whole solid vs. hollow discussion...



I guess my underlying point is that Hemi's u-joint had already failed, either at the seals first or bearing wear leading to the seal failure. Adding grease wouldn't have fixed the problem, just prolonged the failure and made a mess on the underside of the truck.