Any way to check the injectors for no start and hard start problem.

[Blacksdieselhp]

So, i have a truck with a no start issue. Just to be clear, it does crank, but does not start. Last post, we had a misunderstanding about the terminology. But anywany. the first truck won't start at all, except with either. The second truck will start but only after cranking on it for about 30-40 seconds. This gets worse once it is warm. Every now and then it starts right up though. I have ruled out about everything except the injector pump and injectors on both trucks. I have also tried the FCA. Didn't fix. So, is there any way to test the injector pump and injectors while they are in the truck? What should rail pressure be at idle and at WOT(both trucks are stock, one is 03, one is 04). When running, neither truck sound like they have injector issues, but i heard they could be leaking pressure off when cranking and causing no start. Fuel inlet pressure is good and releif valve is good on both trucks. Any ideas or ways to check pump and injectors? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[sag2]

You need TSB 18-003-06 Rev A. It will walk you through the diagnostic procedure for no start as well as poor running conditions. Keep in mind that it assumes you have a scan tool and the required special tools, but if you follow it you will identify the problem.

 

[SKing]

My 03 did what yours is doing and it was the #1 injector (most common). I know others that had same problems. If you plug in the block heater it should start when its warm. #1 controls all the injectors from what I hear and if it goes bad truck will not start when cold but will start when warm.

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Thats the weird thing. It starts when cold, but not when hot. Where do I find the TSB?

 

[JTeague]

You will definately need some special tools as said above. A scan tool to read the rail pressure. a tool to individually cap the injector lines off a the rail to see if 1 or more is leaking or cracked not allowing the fuel pressure to raise high enough to start. a graduated cylinder to measure lift pump flow volume and injector return volume. These are not the easiest things to diagnois compared to the older trucks. You will find that if you do aquire the tools to try to diagnois the truck that the truck may decide to start half way though testing. and give you the wrong impression that you found the problem when you actually did not. check and recheck to make sure. As for the comment about the #1 injector being the most common to fail and that it is the one that controls the rest is complete BS. Any of them could be the problem. You might try running a super strong dose of Diesel Kleen first to try to fix the problem before you dive in head first.

 

[SKing]

Teague I guess the tech at cummins southern plains must have misinformed me in regards to the #1 injector going bad and controling the others. If #1 goes bad electricly the ECM will not control the others correctly was what I was told by the dealer and the tech at C. S. P. If you have other info that states other wise please forward it to me so I can find another shop other than the actual cummins dealer in town.

 

[JTeague]

SKing. The injector operation is controlled by the ECM which consists of an individual control circuit for each injector from the ECM. There is also 2 High side driver circuits comming from the ECM that each control 3 injectors. You can take both of the wires off of the #1 injector and the engine would still start but would miss on # 1 cyl. The injectors are just basically a solenoid. The High side driver is a constant power and the individual control circuit is grounded (duty cycled) to cause the injector to fire. The ECM will sense if the circuit is shorted or open and should throw a fault code however. If the High side driver circuit is bad you could have 3 dead cyls instead of just 1.

 

[John Robinson]

If you are sure its a no start due to low rail psi, what we do is pull each line 1 at a time, cap the rail, if it starts, thats the bad one.

 

[mfrost]

Mine has just started to take about 3 to 4 seconds to start. It use to start instantly. Has 95k on it now. Will check for leaks tomorrow. Don't want it to be an injector. Any other ideas?

 

[mfrost]

Forgot to say, no codes displayed.

 

[AH64ID]

It is probably just faster and easier to pull the CP3 and injectors and ship then to one of the several shops around the country with a Bosch test stand.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The dealer's scan tool can test cylinder contribution which includes more than injector performance, but it may give you a clue if only a couple injectors are bad. A bad rail pop off valve can also cause hard starting, as can other things.

 

[JJPage]

The dealer's scan tool can test cylinder contribution which includes more than injector performance, but it may give you a clue if only a couple injectors are bad. A bad rail pop off valve can also cause hard starting, as can other things.

Like loose cross tubes, which should be one of the first items to check....but always seems to be poo pooed away as myth. So many folks jump right to replacing injectors, when it may well have been a loose tube(s). Guess what? When you replace injectors it is necessary to re-torque cross tubes in the process, makes me wonder how many good injectors have been replaced.

Sorry in advance for sounding so condescending, it just makes me crazy that this condition is overlooked so often. It could be a bad injector or other things as JDonnelly stated, but re-torquing the tubes is free if you own a few simple tools, and have about 2 hrs of time. Jess

I am not speaking to sag2 or Donnelly, I know they already are aware of this.

 

[mfrost]

Like loose cross tubes, which should be one of the first items to check....but always seems to be poo pooed away as myth. So many folks jump right to replacing injectors, when it may well have been a loose tube(s). Guess what? When you replace injectors it is necessary to re-torque cross tubes in the process, makes me wonder how many good injectors have been replaced.

Sorry in advance for sounding so condescending, it just makes me crazy that this condition is overlooked so often. It could be a bad injector or other things as JDonnelly stated, but re-torquing the tubes is free if you own a few simple tools, and have about 2 hrs of time. Jess

I am not speaking to sag2 or Donnelly, I know they already are aware of this.

I will try that, but "cross tubes"? Is that the same as "high pressure connectors" that connect the injector to the high pressure fuel line?
Thanks

 

[AH64ID]

Yes that is the same thing.

 

[Mark31]

The dealer's scan tool can test cylinder contribution which includes more than injector performance, but it may give you a clue if only a couple injectors are bad. A bad rail pop off valve can also cause hard starting, as can other things.

Joe, sag2, and other gurus, can cylinder contribution tests be done on the 03-04 engines? What other computer tests can done on the 305 engines? Mark

 

[TCDiesel]

Contribution test(s) should only be use for touch tone analysis, they very and change regularly, Back leakage rates are far more accurate. BC there is some risk (safety) I will NOT post the 2 procedures, Need to call on those.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Joe, sag2, and other gurus, can cylinder contribution tests be done on the 03-04 engines? What other computer tests can done on the 305 engines? Mark

Yes, the Chrysler DRB scan tool has that test.