anyone using veggie oil

[KSommer]

i'm sick of having to pay for fuel, $2. 50/ gal at last fillup some friends have a restaurant with great food, free fuel for me, i just want to hear from someone who uses the stuff too.

kent

 

[fox]

Not yet but will be soon.

Lotsa good reading about it on the web. We need to be talking about it and sharing info.

 

[yenga80]

well i have read quite a bit on bio-diesel. quite interesting. it's to bad more people don't know about it. from what i've read it has 90% less carcinogens in it compared to regular diesel fuel. so your chances of getting cancer from the exhaust are a lot less. a great website to go to is http://www.freedomfuelamerica.com

If you saw the episode of Trucks on speed channel a while back they showed one of the products this company makes. It costs about 3,000$ plus free shipping. you might think that's a lot but you figure in the savings you would save on fuel it's not bad. they say that your average cost for making your own fuel with this mixer is about 70 cents/gallon. not bad compared to 2. 20-2. 60/gallon. so i figured if you drove a lot with your turbodiesel and you fueled up every week and used about 35 gallons in your tank. normally you'd spend anywhere from 70-90 bucks a full tank right? well at 70 cents or so a gallon for this bio stuff you only spend 24 bucks a tank. thats a savings of over 60 dollars! not bad. so if you save 60$/week you would buy back the 3,000$ kit in a year. if you fuel up every 2 weeks it would take 2 years. these kits that freedom fuel america makes only takes a day to 2 days to mix a batch of 40 gallons. and you can do it in your garage to. it consists of used vegetable oil from your local restuarant (who will probably pay you to take it off there hands) methane, and lith. together it's less toxic than table salt and as biodegradable as sugar. the flash point more that doubles that of regular diesel fuel. 125degrees for regular and 300 for bio. plus it's supposed to smell like popcorn coming out of the exhaust!

andy

 

[RStacy]

local fellow puts a second tank with heaters on your truck with digital gauges for around 4 grand. all stainless steel construction, working on a patent. Better than biodiesel in that you can pull up to any grease pit, drop a hose and fill up either as quick as you would at the pump ($400. 00 more) or let it fill up while you eat. With biodiesel you have to bring it home mix it just right and then run it. Striaght WVO you can wait for the temperature (gauge included) to heat up then flip it over to the WVO fuel line. Down side is that you have to purge the fuel system before you turn it off and you have to wait for it to warm up. Good thing is that you don't have to go home to *make* your fuel. I'm still debating on takiing the jump. Another positive is that once you own the system, it can betansferred to another truck for just a few hundred dollars. I just gotta straighten out my VP$$ first. My fuel prices just went up to about 2. 50 per gallon also. If you figure it up it should pay for itself in less than a year pending how many miles you put on it. Mine will in about 6 months. If you want more info either send me a TDR message or get my attention through -- email address removed --

 

[yenga80]

rstacy i read about the system your desribing. not bad. but like you said about the downside of having to wait for the oil to heat up. don't like that. from what i read today on the net about another kit like the one you describe they say you have to start the truck on normal diesel then hit a switch to turn over to 100% veggie oil. then before you shut down you have to switch back to regular diesel again to clear the fuel lines. sounds like a hassle to me. plus you have this big 2nd tank in the bed of your truck to take up space. i would rather spend the the hour or 2 to make a batch of 40 gallons and then you let the mixer mix it up to completion overnight while you sleep and in the morning just pump it into your truck. have you heard of getting used veggie oil at any fast food places like mcdonalds or wendy's or culvers? i wonder if they would pay someone to take it or if they would charge for it.

andy

 

[KSommer]

Here in WI it can be considered haz waste, restraunts have to pay someone special to take it away. i would think they would be more than happy to give it to you.

I am considering running straight waste frier oil, i don't have the space to "make fuel" and i also have space under the truck for another tank. the spare rides in the bed. i figure i can get 20-30 gallons under there. just looking for someone who's done it so i know what to expect.

kent

 

[yenga80]

but thats the problem. i'm thinking that these restuarants have a contract with these companies that come and take the oil away. i'm curious as so how difficult it would be to have a big company like mcdee's give ya 40 gallons. do these companies that take the oil away pay the restuarants for the oil? i guess the only way to find out is to go down to mcdonalds and ask the manager. also Ksommer when you make your own bio diesel with the 3 components of methane, veggie oil, and lye you don't have to pre-warm it or switch back and forth from regular diesel to bio. it runs from start-up to shutdown, probably because of the methane mixed in with it.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here in WI it can be considered haz waste, restraunts have to pay someone special to take it away. kent

Same in California - and probably many other states.



Lots of guys seem to TALK about going to biodiesel - but usually the notion sorta dies on the vine before they actually get started.



For a first level eye-opener, before getting TOO serious about it, try a few restaurants to actually SEE what luck you would have arranging a reliable and steady source - most restaurants DO have established outfits providing them with containers and hauling the old stuff away - they don't want to come by for a scheduled pick up and find someone else has hauled off all or most of their payload, leaving them with a wasted trip - nor do the restaurant owners want to lose a RELIABLE disposal outfit just to humor a fly-by-night they may never see again...

 

[RStacy]

WOW, some responses and good questions there. I'm not an expert and so I don't have all the answers, but I have done some research. I mean we (or at least I ) consider this to be a major investment and so I've studied it pretty hard. First, I know of two 99 cummins turbo d's running it here locally. I see one on the road regularly, He's a *green* home builder. (ECO friendly stuff) As far asgetting the oil, that's no problem, in my area anyway there are plenty of mom and pop dives willing to give it away. Second thing is to stay away from big name places there will always be red tape,etc... My original choice was nursing home and schools to get mine, but after talking to the guys at the shop they recommend staying with chinese/japenese places. they say the less breading in the grease, the longer you can go without having to clean the filter. They also run this sytem in (according to their numbers) about 15 cars locally. Also according to their stat's Straight vegtable oil burn the same as Bio or yellow diesel. That's to say you still get the 10% increase inpower AND fuel mileage. I have NOT verified the actuall numbers but that seems to be the average from what I hear. It also is supposed to burn up to 75% cleaner than standard diesel.

I agree with yenga80 about it being a hassle to switch the tanks. But after I subscribed to the leading biodiesel sights on the net and started reading all the problems people were having getting it right well I decide that Iwould learn to prime the motor once or twice rather than deal with what they are going through. They are at a point however were they are actually applying for permits to make their own meth or equivalent (homeade still) through the Fed. we'll see. But what do you do when your out of town and can't get home? Then your back to paying for regular.

One of the biggest problems or concerns that I saw was that if bio is not made exactly or the temp doesn't get right then your putting something into your motor that will eventually cause carmalization on the rings etc...

That was probably the single biggest turning point to WVO for me.

Like

I said I'll maybe have to purge and prime the lines a couple of times before I learn. and there will be an occasionally cleaning of the stianless steal filters, but all in all my opinion is to go with WVO.

Also, please don't take my advice on any of these issues. You should due your own due dilligence, just like any other financial subject. These are just my opinions and findings.

p. s the tanks are going into a multitude of places. they don't have to take up bed space unless you want them to. They actually mount them under the vehicle inmost cases or in the trunk on small cars. My personal Idea was to have part of my tool box dedicated to the neccesary hose to reach the grease pit. with everything else hidden. I didn't ask but I remeber seeing a red light mounted to all gauge clusters that they showed me. In retrospect I believe this light stays on when your on the WVO and is off when your on Diesel.

The other thing is that if I go WVO I can still play with bio and once i get the mixture just right can run it on the factory side.

Again, these are just my thoughts.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

One note about running veggie oil, there isn't much history that I've found regarding use with HPCR systems, but provided it is thoroughly filtered and moisture free and adequately heated you should be fine.



There are special beads that can be used to draw moisture out, but I think if you get decent stuff to begin with you shouldn't have an issue with moisture.



I get used veggie oil from my hospital's cafeteria. They were throwing 2-5 gallons of it in the dumpster a week! I do my own little thing but haven't gotten around to making Bio, like Gary commented.



When I get my buckets I let them settle a couple weeks so the crud and heavier fats settle to the bottom, then I pour the best stuff off the top into a large pot and heat it over a Coleman stove to about 190F. Then I pour it through some clean cloth to filter it.



Once I have clean stuff I mix in about 20% diesel and 5-10% gasoline to reduce the viscosity. Then I pour up to 5-6 gallons of this "brew" into my tank at fillup time.



Even though I "thin" it down a little I think it's a bit too viscous because I have more blue smoke in the morning. I didn't want to screw around with heaters and dual tanks. One thing about my method is you only want to do it during the warmer months. Also I have a 12-valve, I wouln't be as inclined to do this on a HPCR truck.



I am going to try making biodiesel, when done properly you'll have a lot more suitable stuff in your tank than waste oil.

 

[Blakers]

The plant where I work is considering going into the biodiesel business. They would not have to change much to make it. BTW, even now, they do buy the used restaurant fat - it's called "yellow grease". They buy it by the tank wagon or railroad tank car.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I certainly agree an increasing shift to use of Bio is a good thing - LOTS of benefits, and few downsides, IF it is done carefully and properly. Again, in some states, the used veggie oil is considers hazardous waste - and use/treatment in residential areas MIGHT create zoning and Hazmat issues with state and local authorities.



I know that in areas where I have lived most of my life, the waste stuff gets hauled off under hazardous waste contracts with licensed handlers - lots of their stuff, solvents, etc. , was shipped to Texas and used to fire power generating plants. I wonder if that sort of disposal is where other outfits haul their veggie oil - I certainly hope it is put to SOME sort of energy recycling use!



Perhaps in view of current and expected future diminishing fuel supplies, we will benefit from ongoing research and development usable by us ordinary guys - at least until the government and tax man gets into the picture...

 

[Tim]

Me and my friend from work are going to make biodiesel... never really considered SVO though.

 

[radar doctor]

Thanks for the info Gang, Keep us Posted, I like what this is saying... does the regular Bi o Diesel you buy at the pump increase Mileage????

 

[JeffreyHahn]

I wouldn't count too much on McDonalds. From what I read on another forum they re-refine the oil so they can use it again. Mmm, Mmm

 

[Blakers]

I know that in areas where I have lived most of my life, the waste stuff gets hauled off under hazardous waste contracts with licensed handlers - lots of their stuff, solvents, etc. , was shipped to Texas and used to fire power generating plants. I wonder if that sort of disposal is where other outfits haul their veggie oil - I certainly hope it is put to SOME sort of energy recycling use!



Perhaps in view of current and expected future diminishing fuel supplies, we will benefit from ongoing research and development usable by us ordinary guys - at least until the government and tax man gets into the picture...

We use new beef tallow, lard, vegetable oil, as well as the used yellow grease restaurant oil to make lots of fatty acid products. We do burn the still bottoms and scrap in one boiler to make steam for the plant. We're getting everything we can out of it.

 

[Moose Truck]

Frybird

KSommer; Check; http://www.frybrid.com/forum/

Lots of reading, Party on!! Moose00

 

[DBond]

One note about running veggie oil, there isn't much history that I've found regarding use with HPCR systems, but provided it is thoroughly filtered and moisture free and adequately heated you should be fine.



...



Once I have clean stuff I mix in about 20% diesel and 5-10% gasoline to reduce the viscosity. Then I pour up to 5-6 gallons of this "brew" into my tank at fillup time.



Even though I "thin" it down a little I think it's a bit too viscous because I have more blue smoke in the morning. I didn't want to screw around with heaters and dual tanks. One thing about my method is you only want to do it during the warmer months. Also I have a 12-valve, I wouln't be as inclined to do this on a HPCR truck.



I am going to try making biodiesel, when done properly you'll have a lot more suitable stuff in your tank than waste oil.

You make several good points, this is in the 3rd G section, and straight veg oil experiments have mostly been done on old engines. Even if straight oil runs in HPCR systems, I would want to see the results of a 100,000 mile tear down before I would consider it.



As far as mixing gas into your fuel, that sounds like a bad idea to me. I think some #1 or kerosine would be fine, but I have read that even very small amounts of gas came have big changes in cetane, lubricity and flash point

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here's a thought for guys wanting to at least TRY the biodiesel, but don't have an available local station source.



IF you have a decent canned food outlet store or similar reduced price store, look for a good buy in a few gallons of cooking oil - it might be pretty decently priced, already pure enough to pour directly in your tank, and since diesel itself is at around $2. 50 a gallon in many areas, you can deduct that from the per gallon cost of the veggie oil.



So, for not TOO high a cost, you can try a veggie bio blend, and see what you think - without the hassle and expense of setting up your own backyard "still" and doing the collecting bit.



Food for thought...

 

[DBond]

Here's a thought for guys wanting to at least TRY the biodiesel, but don't have an available local station source.



IF you have a decent canned food outlet store or similar reduced price store, look for a good buy in a few gallons of cooking oil - it might be pretty decently priced, already pure enough to pour directly in your tank, and since diesel itself is at around $2. 50 a gallon in many areas, you can deduct that from the per gallon cost of the veggie oil.



So, for not TOO high a cost, you can try a veggie bio blend, and see what you think - without the hassle and expense of setting up your own backyard "still" and doing the collecting bit.



Food for thought...

Biodiesel is not plain vegetable oil. Biodiesel must be produced by a chemical process that removes glycerin from the oil.



Bio diesel has been well tested, ASTM spec EPA approved, Dodge approved, Cummins approved...



Straight Veggy oil is experimentation. I think it is great that people are trying these things, just understand the risks you are taking if you choose to experiment.