Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) APPS Dead p0122, p0123!

[DLGonzo]

I notice this morning while passing someone on the interstate some stumbling, ok maybe some bad fuel or clogged filter. On my way home from work it was occuring at less of a load and lower rpm before long I could get over 1500 rpm and if I tried the truck would buck and jump and blow white smoke, then down to about 1200 rpm.



Checked codes with scan tool and got only p0122, and p0123 with the default companion code too, NO check engine light.



Was shocked to find apps $400 at dealer. WOW!



Oh, this all happened now that I have my A/C fixed for a week and picked up my new transmission today.



QUESTION: Is the APPS replacement able to be done in a parking lot OK? Didn't quite make it home.

 

[DLGonzo]

Found that Napa, Autozone and Oreilly's all have aftermarket APPS for about half of OEM. Any experience with these? All have at least a 1 yr warranty. I love saving money, especiallly when I really don't want to spend it

 

[Cummins724]

Issue 54 TDR mag has a article on cleaning the APPS with contact cleaner. They claim that it works. You gotta drill a hole & spray contact cleaner on internals... . may be worth a shot.

 

[DLGonzo]

I found the issue, and I might try that, but the orrigianl apps with 250,000 mile maybe it's time???

 

[ERuhl]

I'm on my third in 100,000 miles, I just installed the second replacement last night.

It is easy to change, you just need:

• a wrench to remove the negative battery terminals (mine is 1/2")
• phillips screwdriver to remove the retainers for the plastic cover (I also used a small flat screw driver to pry out the inserts after removing the cores with the phillips)
• two large flat screwdrivers to pry the throttle cable fitting off the APPS arm
• 10mm socket to remove the 6 mounting bolts

Unplug the APPS and you're free (squeeze the throttle cable bushing to remove it from the APPS housing). I did not need to remove anything else, the cover is removable with the intake piping in place. My 02 doesn't use a cruise control cable and I don't have an auto so there may be up to two more cables to remove. I had it swapped out in less than 10 minutes, so I had to find something to do for an additional 20 minutes before reconnecting the batteries and calibrating the APPS (reconnect batteries, turn key ON but don't start, push pedal to floor slowly and release, turn key OFF).

No experience with the NAPA et. al versions, I shelled out the $400 for OEM.

 

[DLGonzo]

The Napa part is on the way. Will be here at 3:00. Is it rude to do the repair in the parking lot of the dealership??



Oh one other thing. My cruise quit working about three weeks ago. Never took the time to ckeck for codes at that point. Maybe this will fix it.

 

[DLGonzo]

For those of you that might be following this thread, the NAPA/Autozone/O'Reillys part is NOT correct. Will not fit or connect. What a bummer. And what's with DC not selling just the sensor. The $392 part what the whole honkin' bracket and throttle assy. That's not very cost effective. Anyway the truck is running again for now.

 

[rweis]

What EXACTELY is the APPS?



Yes an accelerator pedal position sensor, but exactely how is it constructed?



It looks like an industrial rheostat but it must(?) be more than that? I recalibrated (Bill K recalibration) mine once and it acted like a big rheostat.



What is in the "connector" that makes it something other than a big industrial rheostat?



The $400 seems pretty excessive. Are there any markings as to where DC gets them from? like what manufacture? ohm range? what is it's linearity to the throttle position? what kind of current does it carry (lots?, little?).



Can we do a group buy of 100 of them?



WHAT MAKES this thing so SPECIAL? anyway.



IS COOLING AN ISSUE? If it is a rheostat that does not have enough designed in safety factor for equipment longevity cooling might be a factor (VP44 comes to mind)?



Can it be taken apart, cleaned, and then resealed? What makes it not serviceable? WHAT FAILS on it?, wiper arm? dust build up?, oxidation buildup? what exactely is the mechanical / electrical problem?



What happens when DC no longer stocks the APPS?, you have to buy a new truck?



Bob Weis

 

[DLGonzo]

Not serviceable (can't be disassembled without destroying) althought the article on page 40 issue #54 gives some insight as how to clean the terminals.

no markings on the part to give any operational specs, those would be found on the part drawing.



The supplier of the part is under contract to DC for anywhere from 5 to 10 years from the time the parts stops going into new vehicles to provide service parts. After that is when the aftermarket stuff takes over.



Judging by the rate that people have to change them out I'd think the parts houses would start making them available.



I just wish they'd sell just the sensor. Are we not qualified to remove those small torx hear screws and relace it?

 

[GiesJ]

For those of you that might be following this thread, the NAPA/Autozone/O'Reillys part is NOT correct. Will not fit or connect. What a bummer. And what's with DC not selling just the sensor. The $392 part what the whole honkin' bracket and throttle assy. That's not very cost effective. Anyway the truck is running again for now.

I've been fighting this as well. Several parts stores told me they could get the TPS and showed me a picture. The picture has to be for a 12v because of the plug size and style. They list it incorrectly as applicable to 99 Cummins trucks. Double checked online and NAPA has the same error. Will post part numbers when I get the correct one.



RWEIS - there is a thread here called the anatomy of an APPS that many shed some light on this part related to the questions you have listed, I don't have it in front of me but a quick search should uncover. PM me if you can't track it down.

 

[WTBurke]

Bob,

GiesJ is correct... Gary took one apart a while back and showed some great photos. The APPS is a REAL LAME design... it has scratching-fingers that destroys it's self under normal operation. Who ever spec'd this device out at DC needs to be taken out and bull whipped. It is truly an entire failure of a design regarding potentiometers.



You know... . You just can't fix stupid!



William

 

[PRout]

I changed one of my SEVERAL failed apps in a McDonalds parking lot in about 20 minutes one time. Its an easy job, but the price of the unit from dodge is the real highway robbery part. They really did drop the ball on this part (to their advantage - $400 for a flawed part that has not been re-designed is unacceptable).

 

[GiesJ]

Cannot seem to find anyone with the part. Standard Part number I was given was TH383 from a good local place but they could not find one in stock anywhere.

Proceded to change the TPS/APPS with a buddy's and have the same surgin problem. Will post in 911...

jason

 

[SHobbs]

You think $400 is extreme the APPS for the autos is around $600. I replaced mine in Feb. this year and tried to get it from Cummins and my parts guy told me he could not get it. Chrysler had a lock on them so I called a dealership and he quoted me $620 if memory serves me right. I asked him if he was stoned and then he said " Oh you have the manual transmission the price I quoted you was for the automatic. " I paid around $420 for mine.

 

[BDanner]

Most sold for under $300!!!

I have had this seller on ebay in my favorites for a year. He has sold many. Usually has Automatics listed one week and 5 spds the next. I need one, just not dead yet.



Bids start at $248/Buy it now $315w/$10 shipping



eBay Motors: NEW Dodge (Cummins) Bellcrank assembly, TPS Sensor (item 140167274768 end time Oct-15-07 18:06:39 PDT)

 

[PRout]

They were in stock here a few weeks ago:

Cummins Sensors

Look at the bottom of the page. Make sure you specify if you have an auto or a stick as they are different.

 

[Xgunfighter]

Don't feel too bad. The ******* in Iowa, where I broke down charges me 516. 00 for the part. I reially feel bad now that I am home and could have gotten it from cummins for a lot less..... Great truck, lousy company. .

 

[PRout]

Thats just plain greedy. This is a perfect example of why we have the right to call them exactly what they are: STEALERS