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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) APPS suspect?

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) 1998 or 1999 or 98.5

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nascar

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2001 2500 w/ 6 speed manual. Engine all stock. 107,500 miles.

Driving the truck on the interstate around 65 mph at a steady speed, not using the cruise control, the engine will cut out for a few seconds, then recover. It's just like I would take my foot off the accelerator and coast, then accelerate back up to speed. Will do this 5 or 6 times. I never change the position of my foot on the accelerator pedal.

You guys have any guesses?
Thanks!
 
That is kind of what mine did in the early stages, but it was more frequent, like 1 second either accelerating or decelerating. No way to know for sure unless you have a scanner hooked up to it to see the voltage changes.

Even had a computer based scanner that would read the APPS output in a graph (looked like a mountain range) and showed it to the dealer (still under warranty) and they refused to do anything until it threw a code.
 
Could be APPS or it could be the IP, both will exhibit somewhat the same symptoms.

Does it do it at any speed or is it always in a very narrow speed range?
 
When my apps went out it just stayed at 1000rpm and would not accelerate with pedal down. After restarting it would run fine. It did this 3 times... then I replaced it.
 
That truck bypasses the APPS with the cruise control on. Do you have the symptoms with the cruise on? If they go away, then it's your APPS. If it keeps dying, then I'd look at the injector pump.
 
That truck bypasses the APPS with the cruise control on.



Not with cruise control, with speed control. Cruise control uses a cable to the APPS and a vacuum actuator, speed control was all in the ECM. Auto trucks were always cruise control, manual trucks could be either though speed control was the norm.



In the OP's case the point is moot, the problem occurs without any speed control enabled.
 
Not with cruise control, with speed control. Cruise control uses a cable to the APPS and a vacuum actuator, speed control was all in the ECM. Auto trucks were always cruise control, manual trucks could be either though speed control was the norm.



In the OP's case the point is moot, the problem occurs without any speed control enabled.



Symantics. Do you think the button on the steering wheel says "Speed Control" on the trucks without the vacuum servo?



The 2001 ETH trucks were ALL ECM-based cruise. No vacuum actuator to be found.



In that truck, cruise on = APPS bypassed. If the OP's problem persists with the cruise on, it cannot be the APPS. No question. This is exactly how I found the bad APPS on my 2001 ETH.



The OP's problem is most likely 1 of 2 things, and this quick test will tell him which one it is. Hardly a moot point.
 
Just got back from a 75 mile, mostly interstate trip. Symptoms occured with and without cruise control. It was doing it bad today. While it's cutting out, I can push the accelerator pedal to the floor, and it has no effect. It seems like it cuts out when it wants. It doesn't cut out for more than a few seconds, then it recovers for a few, then cuts out again, very random. Kind of like it has a fit, then gets over it. Very aggravating, because traffic comes up fast behind me, and I'm doing all I can to get moving. I'll put my foot to the floor, it finally recovers, and I get my butt going.
Truck is an ETH, and injector pump was replaced 39,000 miles ago (bad lift pump killed it). I also checked for codes using the ignition key on-off trick. It returns nothing at all except "p-done". Any other info you guys need about the truck, please ask me! What can I check now??
 
You're watching your supply fuel pressure, correct? If that's solid, then I'd look to maybe the MAP sensor and its connectors, since the vp44 won't fuel unless it sees boost. Other than that, I think it might be time to look at the vp44 again...
 
Sometimes you get no codes for just the minimal bucking. Take the truck out on some hills and work the throttle hard up and down while you pull the hills and coast. Usually that will cause it to pop codes. Until then its a guess whether it is the IP, APPS, or even fuel supply. Do you have a gauge to monitor fuel pressure at the IP?
 
Fuel pressure is 8-10# on interstate at the time truck acts up. Gauge gets reading from the test port on the VP-44. I have Geno's large port banjo bolt installed. I use no isolator. Have a straight line to the mechanical pressure gauge with a needle valve between gauge and VP-44. Needle valve is opened just enough to get a pressure reading.
 
The supply sounds good, and you've eliminated the APPS as a possibility, so there isn't much left in the system that could cause your symptoms. Start with checking/cleaning the connectors (MAP, IAT, VP44, ECM) since that's free, maybe replace the MAP (relatively inexpensive, wouldn't hurt anyway because of its age), and then probably the VP44. Keep in mind that the pumps are all rebuilds at this point, so they've already failed at least once. Now they're only as good as the rebuilder.
 
The supply sounds good, and you've eliminated the APPS as a possibility, so there isn't much left in the system that could cause your symptoms. Start with checking/cleaning the connectors (MAP, IAT, VP44, ECM) since that's free, maybe replace the MAP (relatively inexpensive, wouldn't hurt anyway because of its age), and then probably the VP44. Keep in mind that the pumps are all rebuilds at this point, so they've already failed at least once. Now they're only as good as the rebuilder.



Not to mention there are builders who will bench test the electronics on the VP, and if they pass, it gets used on a reman pump with unknown mileage. Could last a year or 10 years, it's all a crap shoot. They rarely disclose this point unless you directly ask them. Alot of people buy these IP without even knowing theyre getting a used unit.

You say stock truck, no programmers or fuel boxes of any type? You may try using an actual scanner rather than the key trick, sometimes a scanner will pick a code up that the odometer will not show. It's worth a shot.
 
Wonder if there is a failing electrical issue here. Relay, corroded connection... Something that may be momentarily cutting all power to the VP for a brief moment. (I've been wondering down this rabbit hole on a different theory/application).
 
Drove it a lot yesterday, and didn't do it much at all. I would think if it's the injection pump, it would act up all the time.
 
Either the APPS or IP can intermittently cause issues, it is tough at times to narrow it down. Either one should throw codes if the problem is serious enough to surface like that, but, a mechanical pump issue may not show codes. If you have access to a good scanner I would hook it up and see if it can find any codes, some times they just don't make it to the display.
 
There are two sensors that control fueling rate: manifold pressure (MAP) and throttle position (APPS). You've eliminated the APPS by having the issue with cruise engaged, so you're left with the MAP. It can fail, but still remain in its expected voltage range (what the ECM considers normal) and not throw a code. Possible, but not probable, due to how abrupt the fueling cuts out and returns. A sticky sensor would probably be slow to react or not react, not cut out and in. Bad wiring would probably set a code.



The other sensors that control the engine fueling are the IAT (intake air temp) and the CPS (cam/crank position sensor). Most likely the engine wouldn't drop out due to a bad IAT (especially without setting a code). It is just there to advance and retard the timing based on charge air temperature. The CPS times the injection events to the appropriate cylinders. That will cause the engine to cut out if it fails, but a code is likely. The CPS also runs the tach, so watch for the tach to fall to zero as the truck stumbles with a bad CPS.



That's it for inputs. All that info goes to the ECM. Potentially you could have a bad circuit there, but not likely. Again, you'd probably see codes or have a funny wait-to-start light.



And the ECM has a direct path to the VP44's computer with some nice, big, secure, watertight connectors (might be worth carefully unplugging and inspecting). The VP44's computer does some error checking as far as the electronic inputs and outputs, but it has no idea what is actually taking place mechanically inside the pump or what the quality or quantity of the fuel shot is.



Something else to check would be the ground strap from the engine to the battery. Grounding issues can cause weird things electrically. However, you'd probably see some codes pop up, such as improper voltage at some of the sensors. If you live in a road salt environment, the front driveshaft on a 4x4 will throw salt water all over the left side of the engine all the way up to the hood, so just checking all the connectors in this area wouldn't hurt.



You have adequate fuel supply, so that's out. A leak in the fuel system would probably show up with some hard to start issues or a wet spot, so that's not likely either.



With all that being said, as someone who had a reman'd VP44 last less than 50k miles, I think your VP44 is on its way out. As diesel4life indicated, there's a wide range of what passes for a "rebuilt" pump. There was a visible difference between my #2 and #3 VP44, with the #3 (from Schied) looking much cleaner and more neatly put together on the outside. I'm only speculating that the outside appearance reflected the inside craftsmanship, but I'd like to think it was an overall reflection of pride-of-product. Like I've said, they've all broken at least once at this point. Now it all depends on the quality of the rebuild.



Good luck, and I hope I'm wrong.
 
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