Arc (Stick) Welding Tips

[rbattelle]

This thread is another one of those where the amount of knowledge is worth a lot to us out here. .



Thanks everyone. .

Amen to that!



You guys are going to cost me a fortune. Now that you've got me looking at Maxstar's I'm thinking "well, maybe I should get the 150 STH with a complete TIG kit. Of course, I have exactly 0 experience with TIG - I don't even know what it's used for (except that I see people using them all the time on body fabrication type TV shows).



What can I weld with TIG that I can't weld with stick?



So many questions... so many options. I love welding. Oo.



On edit: what does the plug look like on a Maxstar 150? I mean, doesn't it need an adaptor of some sort to connect to a 240v circuit?



-Ryan

 

[DValentine]

Cojhl2- I also have a Lincoln 225 that has seen better days. I rebuild the engine after Dad brought it home thinking he was bring me the Jewel of the Nile..... The pan was cracked from rain down the stacks... . Hind sight would suggest that I would have been better off with a newer gas welder (used) for the price of the engine parts. Still works but I need parts for the electrical side.



Sstefanini- Just got off a 6 month run... waiting for a small outage to break here near the house. Tsk Tsk... That made my day. You in a shop or do you get out on the road? Or a little of both?



Ryan, Ah ha... . Now we are getting some where. Oo. I am in the same boat myself. The tools I use on the job are supplied... . at home for what I do, I haven't been able to justify 3500. 00 for the do it all... XMT 304 Miller. Sstefanini and I have been herding you toward this enlightenment for a few posts... . not trying to tell you what to do. You would be very happy with a maxstar 150. Even the plain jane one you can TIG with. All you need to do is reverse the leads (more on this later), buy a argon bottle, regulator, and some other small parts.



A TIG machine is mighty fine for what Sstefanini is using it for... . It is a "clean" process, and very controllable. We use it for putting in the root of a tube weld. What I mean by clean is that there is no slag... . the argon is the gas coverage, the filler metal is bare wire. We do both carbon steel and stainless tube work with it. Our welds are X-rayed and the TIG process makes for a high success rate. When TIG welding it is obvious when something is not going right... . the weld puddle bubbles and showers little sparks out of it.



The Maxstar or the Thermal Dynamics both will plug into 110V or 220 with a change of the plug. Thermal Dynamics has a better price from what I have seen and just as easy to "fine tune. " A friend of mine has a Dragster 85 and it is one cool machine... . about 13 pounds, runs on 110v and will burn 3/32 E7018 all day long.

I looked in northern hydraulics at the Hobart Stickmate... . I would recommend you try one of the millers.



Dave

 

[rbattelle]

Great timing, Dave, I was just in the process of researching this (a topic that I must admit has consumed my life for over 2 weeks now).



I'm about 90% of the way to pulling the trigger on a Maxstar 150S (stick only). I'm just making sure I'm not limiting myself in any meaningful way by moving away from the Stickmate (aka Thunderbolt) stick machines.



Since I made my last post I've done lots of reading about TIG and I think I understand what it's good for. Machinery's Handbook refers to it as the single most flexible welding method available, second only to Plasma Arc Welding (PAW).



At this point in my life (and my welding career), I don't have a specific need for TIG, for a couple reasons. First of all, I don't have the slightest clue how to use a TIG machine. That means I'll have to invest a lot of money in gas in order to learn, or take a course (best option, really). I'm not ready to do that.



What I really want right now is to master (and I mean really master) the art of stick welding. My specific welding goals are:



1. To be able to competently (consistently) weld sheet metal as thin as 18 ga. (0. 047"). This would be for the specific purpose of making minor temporary repairs to appliances (water heaters, furnaces, washers/dryers), and for the occasional need to make a small bracket out of thin metal. On edit: it would be nice also to be able to make welds on exhaust piping [I know that's a TALL order for a stick machine].



2. To be able to competently weld structural steel up to 1/4". This would be for the purpose of making things like spare tire carriers and headache racks.



Certainly TIG would work quite nicely in all those applications. But perhaps the thing I like best about stick over all other welding methods is that no gas is required. I find that very desireable.



So as I mentioned, the last thing I need to research before buying ( Oo. ) is what I won't be able to do with the Maxstar 150S that I could do with a Stickmate (Thunderbolt). Certainly one thing is the significantly greater current capacity on the Stickmate (225 AC). But, ironically, in order to weld with the Stickmate at anything above around 130 amp I'll need to upgrade the wiring in my garage (currently limited to 30 amp by my own stupidity :{ ). So right out of the box the Maxstar will be significantly more capable than the Stickmate.



My orderin' finger's gettin' itchy!



-Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Okay, it's settled. I'm buying the Maxstar 150S.



Next question: do I opt for the $70 case or not?



-Ryan

 

[sstefanini]

The plug on a Maxstar is the 115V sideways prong. The first thing we did when we got one was cut the plug off and put a standard 110 on it. If you try to stick weld with it @ 100A on a 110V circuit you will be going back and forth to the breaker most times. 110 is mainly good for 80A or less (TIG) welding. It really depends on the circuit your on.



18ga with a stick is going to be tough. Thats what the TIG is good for. Don't worry about the added argon costs, I have a Syncrowave 250 in my shop that gets used pretty regularly and I haven't bought a bottle of gas in over a year (about $40 + bottle).



I'm not trying to dog on older machines, my "baby" is a '75 SA200 I stripped down and rebuilt last year. But truth is inverters are the future along with orbitals and dimetrics but thats a whole other thread.



DValentine I was running roads chasing refinery's and cogens, then got hooked up with a couple nuke automatic co's. Haven't traveled more than a week or two since our 2nd son was born as theres plenty of low scale local work in the southeast now. I have spent a fair amount of time on composite crews with boilermakers but still don't get it.

 

[rbattelle]

The plug on a Maxstar is the 115V sideways prong.

It must be 5-20 or 6-20. I'm already working on getting the parts I need to make up a couple power connectors that will adapt the machine to a standard 120v outlet and a dryer outlet. No problem there.



I have a 30-amp 240 outlet in my garage, so I can easily handle maximum load.



-Ryan

 

[sstefanini]

We just make pigtail adapters for whatever facility were working at. You'll be set with a 110 plug and an adapter for a dryer plug.

 

[DValentine]

Ryan, You won't miss anything with that stickmate. The AC side of that machine was not going to do you any good. Sstefanini had mentioned TIG welding on AC but the Stickmate was not going to do that for you.



Stefanini, working composite stinks for all involved. I grew up in a nonunion family of loggers and such... . it is a new ball game for me. I just finished a job working composite with tinners and insulators skinning a new boiler... . they hated the fact that I was on the job. It was a tough run for me.



Dave

 

[rbattelle]

Maxstar gets here Tuesday!!! Oo.



-Ryan

 

[rbattelle]

Oh Boy!

Got the new Maxstar today! I've attached a couple pictures, including one of the plug on the unit to show it's a 5-20 type NEMA connector (I was not able to verify what it was anywhere online prior to taking receipt of the unit).



I've already run a few feet of electrodes of various diameters through it. Here's my thoughts so far.



1. Holy cow, the arc start feature on this thing makes arc starting much easier. It jacks up the current temporarily at the start of a weld to help prevent electrode sticking. The increased current lasts about 0. 5-1 second. It is still possible to stick an electrode if the current setting on the machine is too low for the electrode diameter and the material thickness. On the other hand, the large jump in current at arc start was quite startling to me the first several arcs I struck. I'm used to it now. It actually takes more skill to start the arc than I would've expected with the arc start jumping the current by as much as it does (it must be at least a 25% increase). It's sort of like trying to fill a little paper Dixie cup by pointing your hose at it and turning it on full blast for a moment. It really takes some careful control with arc length to keep from just burning a hole right through your material. Also, I find the "tap method" works much much better than the "drag method" with the arc strike feature (whereas without the arc strike assistance I had far greater success with the drag method).



2. DC welding is TOTALLY different from AC welding. First of all, it's much quieter and smoother. There's very little splatter. Secondly, for whatever reason it seems like the heat is higher with DC welding. What I mean is, penetration is much deeper with the DC than the AC machine I was using with the same electrode and current setting.



3. Having "solved" my arc strike issues, for the most part (I'm able to achieve an arc on the first attempt about 90% of the time now), my attention has been turned to making better beads. I need to work on penetration, finding optimal arc length, and consistent, steady movements. I've started to grip the electrode holder with 2 hands now, and hold my forearms and elbows close to my body in an attempt to keep my movements smooth. I really need to work on penetration, because it seems like I'm going way too deep on thinner metals (1/16"). Can't decide if I need to move faster to keep the puddle small, or reduce current (or both).



This little Maxstar is a joy (although it's so small and so light that I must admit it seems almost too small and light... looks like a sissy welder next to the big transformer-powered units)! I haven't tried it on 240v yet (ordered the necessary connectors tonight), but it seems to work quite well on 120v. I welded up to a 1/8" 6011 rod (which was an awful rod, BTW) at 75 amp without any problems. It has a fan that senses the circuit temperature and kicks on and off when necessary. It also has an automatic duty cycle switch that won't allow you to exceed the duty cycle. The electrode holder and grounding clamp are LIGHT YEARS ahead of the little guy I was using before. And I'm glad I opted for the case - it makes keeping things together much easier.



I still find the 6013 rods to be much easier to use and much smoother than the 6011 rods. The 6011's make really rough, hack-and-slash arcs. I've yet to try 7018 or 7024.



Can any of you guys recommend a convenient reference page that will give me a guide relating workpiece thickness, electrode diameter, and current? I did order a Miller stick calculator, but haven't received it yet.



-Ryan

 

[TurboTweaker]

Well shoot!!!! that means my 1967 Lincoln 225 Onan Powered DC welder is not current tech!!! laf



But the real reason for this post is: are you guys saying that a 110V inverter can truly weld 3/8 base.

you think your Onan is old? i got a 1948 Onan potra-weld prototype#2 150amp. As for the maxstar150 its a great unit i have used one on boiler repairs, but if you want to weld aluminum what about a dynasty200? i personaly own a tunderboltxl and a dynasty300 dx and a 251millernmatic. ALL BLUE! i used a dynasty 200 in tech school and it would weld 1/4 Aluminum no problem. As for the stick welding, i like my 312 1/4" rod! i get it from work when they throw out the stuff thats been out of the oven for a day. take it home and back into the oven.



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[Sled Puller]

Well, now that we have the attention of every TDR welder, what is a good, reasonably priced self darkening helmet for part timers?

Where to get it?





If you want to see some awesome stick welds, go watch a Union Pipeliner weld gas line. Amazing.

 

[TurboTweaker]

or a boiler maker sleddy... ... ... i would know i was one. as for the, how about a Next Gen lens in a crapy jackson helmet

 

[DValentine]

Ryan, thin metal is tough. Try thicker 1/4 or 3/8 inch stuff. It will allow you to run multiple beads side by side and won't burn through.



If you insist on using 1/16 then turn the heat down, and move faster. For now, I suggest using heavier plate. As you get more comfortable, you then can go back to thin metal. You will "see" what you need to do as you get more experience, to work on the thin stuff.



Try some 7018 3/32 on 70-75 amps and you will like the beads you make. The rods you are using... especially 6011 will burn like you describe.



As for rod size to plate thickness..... You can use 3/32 and fill a bevel on two pieces of 1 inch plate. It will take many many passes and a lot of time. So the bigger rod comes into play.

Or you can weld two pieces of 1/8 inch plate together in one pass with 1/8 in rod.





here are some suggestions:

6010/6011 3/32 50-65 amps

6013 3/32 60-80 amps

7018 3/32 65-80 amps



7018 1/8 115-130 amps



All this is dependant on thickness of metal, position of weld (flat, vertical, overhead)

and your welding style. Some guys like the rod to burn hotter than others... . it is a matter of preference.



Dave

 

[rbattelle]

Thanks for the numbers, Dave. I didn't get to burn any metal tonight. I'm dismantling a junked lawnmower that will give me lots of surfaces to practice on. I'm thinking of cutting the blade up into short pieces then practicing tee, butt, and lap joints on it.



I'll take your advice and stick to the thicker stuff for awhile, and I'll try some 7018. Any suggestions for an electrode brand you like? Lincoln Fleetweld and Hobart Weld-it are available locally, but I've read some good things about Esab's Atom Arc line.



Anyone have any suggestions for the welding-equivalent of TDR?



Sled Puller - I'm using the $54. 99 Harbor Freight auto-darkening helmet now. Although I'm somewhat ashamed that I ended up going with the cheapest option (especially among the welding talent here), but it actually seems like a really nice helmet. Of course, I have nothing to compare it to except a friend's Lincoln that was on the fritz.



-Ryan

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Don't be too ashamed Ryan. I'm using that same $54. 99 Harbor Freight helmet and it's been working great for me now for a year and a half. I've put about 14 lbs of wire through my MIG and used that helmet for all of it - no eye burn yet.

 

[DValentine]

I think your hood is fine. If a guy got flash burn using it, they wouldn't sell it. I mentioned in another "hood" post by Bigkid59, that I bought my father a Miller/Hobart auto hood for around 100 dollars that I was impressed with, the little I used it.

I use a speed glas as a Boilermaker, but I see a lot of Jackson Next Gens, and another called Optrel (I think)... . that one looks like a space helmet.

A lot of the old timers still use the old flip down hoods... . They don't need the new crap. But, if you are going to buy a hood and have it for a long time you need to get one that you can put a cheater lens in. I know most are young guys but... . it will happen, your eyes will get bad. I'm only 34 but am not to far from the day that I'll be looking for a cheater to help... ease my eyes. Any of you guys... ... if you feel like you can't see... . try a 75 plastic cheater, which are inexpensive (5-8 dollars).



Ryan, I use a lot of Atom Arc on jobs... . I guess it is cheaper rod..... on a big shut down job we might go through 5,000 pounds of rod or more. Any rod will do the job. Fleetweld will do fine.

You might invest in a plastic air tight rod can, when you start buying 7018. It is what is called low hydrogen rod... . and it will suck up moisture... . and become high hydrogen... . the moisture will affect the rod and weld. Your 60 series rod is fine in the black can you had in the picture of you machine.



Hey, when you feel a little cockey with your skills, buy a little 309 stainless rod which will bond with mild steel and see how frustrated you get trying to lay a nice bead. On a serious note... Stainless welding will stretch your skills, and make you better with mild steel. I am sure you can think of some cool things to build out of S Steel.



Keep forging on... You will get better.



Dave

 

[sstefanini]

Hey DValentine I'm 32 and run a 75 cheater daily. #9 shade lens(on stick), #10(TIG) and a Fibermetal Pipeliner are good enough.

I never cared too much for the autodarkeners. I've only used one once and didn't like the on and off flash when you run a 6010 root.

I don't wear glasses or have any vision issues but I have had "tired eyes" at the end of long days sometimes. Cheaters and slightly lighter lenses seem to help alot.

Ryan, you have fallen down a slippery slope. Now if you want to fab anything of course you'll have to have a torch and a 4" grinder. Not the most expensive items but then it leads to bigger and better things (kinda like diesel trucks). Then of course you'll burn plenty of perfectly good clothes up and walk around sporting water blisters and burns in pretty unusual places.

Looks like your on the right track now.

 

[LEPage]

Dvalentine, I just found this thread & am getting a good laugh out of it. A Boilermaker trying to teach someone to weld???? Now I've heard it all! Just kidding brother, from a UA pipewelder.

 

[rbattelle]

Ryan, I use a lot of Atom Arc on jobs... . I guess it is cheaper rod..... on a big shut down job we might go through 5,000 pounds of rod or more. Any rod will do the job. Fleetweld will do fine.

You might invest in a plastic air tight rod can, when you start buying 7018. It is what is called low hydrogen rod... . and it will suck up moisture... . and become high hydrogen... . the moisture will affect the rod and weld. Your 60 series rod is fine in the black can you had in the picture of you machine.

5000 lb!? Wow. That's a lot of melted steel rods.



I did buy an air tight plastic can to supplement the one that came with the welder. I also picked up a reuseable silicone dessicant packet to stick in the can and absorb moisture.



I finally found the big local welding shop, so I called to see what rod they carry. They said the best they have is Lincoln "Excalibur", which judging from it's name has a lot to live up to. I might drop by there Saturday morning and pick up some "Excalibur" 7018 (assuming I'm able to pull it out of the rock).



No welding again tonight... had to do PM on the truck.



-Ryan