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Arc (Stick) Welding Tips
- Thread starter rbattelle
- Start Date
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Ryan, You can gradually come down on amps, and your puddle will be easier to control. When the amps are too high for the rod, the rod splatters (7018) and leaves berries around the weld zone. If you're using 6010 you will run the rod much different than 7018. The 6010 rod is what is called a fast freeze rod and you whip the rod in and out of the puddle. It will burn differently. 6011/6013 you can run like 7018, but the beads will not look quite the same. Another thing that will help you, use 1/4 or heavier plate to work with..... this will allow you to make multiple passes with out the plate getting too hot. Try 3/8 or bigger... . my recommendation.
Put two plates together in a upside down T shape..... you can then weld on both sides of the tee..... this is called a fillet weld . When you get the first bead in, place one down to the outside of the first... . covering 1/2 the first bead with the second. The third bead goes on top of the other two... . tying into the plate and covering half of the second bead.
Keep working at it. When you get mad... . walk away and do something different. There are natural welders, but I am not one of them. It takes as much to become good, as someone learning a musical instrument.
Dave
Put two plates together in a upside down T shape..... you can then weld on both sides of the tee..... this is called a fillet weld . When you get the first bead in, place one down to the outside of the first... . covering 1/2 the first bead with the second. The third bead goes on top of the other two... . tying into the plate and covering half of the second bead.
Keep working at it. When you get mad... . walk away and do something different. There are natural welders, but I am not one of them. It takes as much to become good, as someone learning a musical instrument.
Dave
if your hands/mitts are dry no problem... if they are wet, then you might get a zap [done that before
]:-laf:-laf:-laf i can't count how many times i have done that. . i've used up about 1" of rod with no flux on the end before just dancing the arc around the work until it started to get to where the flux is then back to the joint i was welding. not recomended when you care what the work looks like after you are done [i was welding some 1/2" plate and that side was going to not be visiable until the next time the loco was wrecked and repaired]
This wont help anybody weld better, I bring it up only for interest,,
When I worked in a shop in the late 50's and early 60's the old time welders (They were prob around 40, although I thot they were really old men) made fun of us newcomer college graduates.
When they started welding they used bare rods according to them anyway. Made real welders out of them.
Heck I still have prob with jetweld on flat. .
When I worked in a shop in the late 50's and early 60's the old time welders (They were prob around 40, although I thot they were really old men) made fun of us newcomer college graduates.
When they started welding they used bare rods according to them anyway. Made real welders out of them.
Heck I still have prob with jetweld on flat. .
Ryan, get a cheap MIG welder and see the difference.
Sure, I can stick weld with my TIG unit, but if that is the type welding needed, the MIG unit does a better job. I'm amazed at how cheap the MIG units are now. Next retire the cutting torch and try a plasma unit... .
It never ends! Gosh I love shop toys. I'm just glad I can keep it in the hobby mode and not have to rely on the shop for income. You guys that spend all day in the shop making a living are the real heros. You know what works and how to do it in a cost effective way. That is one skill I'm lacking!
Sure, I can stick weld with my TIG unit, but if that is the type welding needed, the MIG unit does a better job. I'm amazed at how cheap the MIG units are now. Next retire the cutting torch and try a plasma unit... .
It never ends! Gosh I love shop toys. I'm just glad I can keep it in the hobby mode and not have to rely on the shop for income. You guys that spend all day in the shop making a living are the real heros. You know what works and how to do it in a cost effective way. That is one skill I'm lacking!
rbattelle said:
Ryan,
It won't shock you but,... if you've already struck an arc, the rod will be warm to hot. Always remember, if you have a brain fart and touch something and you see your glove smoking, you've got about one second before you get this painful burning sensation. :--)
I personally don't reccomend learning that way. Best to learn body position, bracing, and rod feed control. Short stroke like striking a match, then lift a little to maintain. I personally hate welding on AC current, especially with 7018's. I prefer 6010, 6011 on DC reverse. Remember to keep your rods in a warm dry place. They don't operate very good after moisture has penetrated them.
rbattelle
TDR MEMBER
LesStallings said:
MIG welders make it too easy... they take all the "fun" out of it.
That's what I originally "learned" to weld with... a MIG. I used to think Arc welders were obsolete. Then one day I was watching a Discovery channel special about some tunnel that was being dug (maybe the Chunnel). Anyway, it required what was, at the time, the world's largest tunnel boring machine. The machine was assembled on-site, including the cutter head. The welding required on the cutter was so difficult and precise they had to call in some ultra-specialized South African welding "team". I was astonished to find they were using the good 'ol stick welder (albeit in MASSIVE scale... the rods must've been at least 1/4").
After I saw that, I decided Arc welding is not obsolete, and is something that's worth taking the time to learn. It seems to me that a skilled arc welder can produce welds at least as good as any MIG welder can. I'm not sure how true that is.
I haven't practiced in 2 days due to other committments. I've got some time alloted to more practice tomorrow.
A quick look in Machinery's Handbook shows the recommended amperage for 6013 1/16" electrodes is 20-40.
I need a lot of practice. I've tried visualizing the strike process like striking a match, but I swear I'm just not quick enough to pull away from the workpiece before the electrode sticks. OR, maybe I pull away too far and extinguish the arc before it has a chance to get going... -Ryan
Ryan, as you said, you might be getting the rod going but pulling it too far out of the puddle, then pushing it back in too fast. An AC machine is not smooth like a DC machine.
Don't discount a mig machine. They have a place and can weld circles around a guy with a stick machine in terms of lineal footage. I worked in a heavy equipment shop where we built some logging equipment. We ran . 045 wire and could run a pass on 1 inch plate in a fillet weld that was 1 1/4 inch wide and 3/4 inch deep in one pass..... sometimes 5 foot long. That would take a guy, even with 1/4 rod, a long time to do the same. In production manufacturing of most of the world products mig machines are used. They are good for a garage also... . one weakness is that the covering gas (aside from flux core wire) is not easy to deal with outside the shop..... in a windy field, or as you mentioned... . down in a mine or tunnel. Stick welding works, in the wind, on dirty metal (rust, greasy) with the right rods. I have patched boiler tubes with water still coming out of them with 6010-Not that this is a good fix... it just is a patch.
One question on your welder... . can the leads be reversed? Are they built into the machine. To weld in the process you are using you need to have the machine in reverse polarity... which is to say that your stinger is on the positive side. If you get your leads mixed up it will cause problems. I can explain more on electrical theory and welding if you want.
remember, naturally gifted welders are far and few between. There are guys who don't have to struggle much..... I am not one of them.
Dave
Don't discount a mig machine. They have a place and can weld circles around a guy with a stick machine in terms of lineal footage. I worked in a heavy equipment shop where we built some logging equipment. We ran . 045 wire and could run a pass on 1 inch plate in a fillet weld that was 1 1/4 inch wide and 3/4 inch deep in one pass..... sometimes 5 foot long. That would take a guy, even with 1/4 rod, a long time to do the same. In production manufacturing of most of the world products mig machines are used. They are good for a garage also... . one weakness is that the covering gas (aside from flux core wire) is not easy to deal with outside the shop..... in a windy field, or as you mentioned... . down in a mine or tunnel. Stick welding works, in the wind, on dirty metal (rust, greasy) with the right rods. I have patched boiler tubes with water still coming out of them with 6010-Not that this is a good fix... it just is a patch.
One question on your welder... . can the leads be reversed? Are they built into the machine. To weld in the process you are using you need to have the machine in reverse polarity... which is to say that your stinger is on the positive side. If you get your leads mixed up it will cause problems. I can explain more on electrical theory and welding if you want.
remember, naturally gifted welders are far and few between. There are guys who don't have to struggle much..... I am not one of them.
Dave
go to a ship yard and see the size of rods they have there... we had one in the welding theory class at school. . it is around 30"-36" long and about 3/4"-7/8" around, the filler was about 1/2"
is it an a/c only machine??? my friend had a cheap 80amp 115vac buzzbox and it was a/c only... i found it hard to use, but i managed to scrounge up some large diodes [um, work scrap bin finds
] and build a rectifier for him so he could weld in DC [straight or reverse] and it helped him out a lotryan, Ac machines are cheaper. The power you are using to run the machine is AC (your house 110 v power) so there are no rectifiers, diodes or a inverter. Alternating curent is just that... . the current flows back and forth..... down the electrode (stick) for a time, then back up it (at 60 herz). This is a simplified explanation. A DC machine (Direct Current) flow of electrons is in one direction... . down the rod. This kind of welder uses a rectifier or inverter to block the back flow of the electrons... . making the current direct current. or
Anyway the DC machine is more expensive because it has parts in it that interupt the back flow of alternating current thus making it direct. (this too is a simple explanation. )
On a DC machine the process is a smooth transfer of molten metal from the end of the electrode. Not so with the AC machine.
The AC machine costs less to build, to sell and to buy.
If you are serious about welding and making things... . you need to think of getting a DC machine. Look up Thermal Dynamics... . as good as Red or Blue, but a better price... . you are not paying for the color of the paint.
Good luck
Dave
Anyway the DC machine is more expensive because it has parts in it that interupt the back flow of alternating current thus making it direct. (this too is a simple explanation. )
On a DC machine the process is a smooth transfer of molten metal from the end of the electrode. Not so with the AC machine.
The AC machine costs less to build, to sell and to buy.
If you are serious about welding and making things... . you need to think of getting a DC machine. Look up Thermal Dynamics... . as good as Red or Blue, but a better price... . you are not paying for the color of the paint.
Good luck
Dave
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I have a gasoline powered DC Lincoln Ive used for years. Very smooth welder.
But its a hassle to start it every time specially in the shop so I found this Lincoln (for me red is best) offered the guy 90$ and I now own this buzz box.
Needless to say I keep the gasoline powered for field work but this welder has made it a lot quicker in the shop.
BTW, the welder had never been used although it was a few years old.
So what I am saying is; there are welders out there and they are reasonable for any of us non-professional rod burners.
I found this same welder on ebay current bid was 162.
Also,, out of position welding is almost impossible with AC welders.
I found this on E-Bay not a bad deal is it??
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lincoln-Electri...92695805QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
But its a hassle to start it every time specially in the shop so I found this Lincoln (for me red is best) offered the guy 90$ and I now own this buzz box.
Needless to say I keep the gasoline powered for field work but this welder has made it a lot quicker in the shop.
BTW, the welder had never been used although it was a few years old.
So what I am saying is; there are welders out there and they are reasonable for any of us non-professional rod burners.
I found this same welder on ebay current bid was 162.
Also,, out of position welding is almost impossible with AC welders.
I found this on E-Bay not a bad deal is it??
http://cgi.ebay.com/Lincoln-Electri...92695805QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Last edited:
MIG machines have their place in production enviroments but if I had limited funds I would go with a red or blue 220V DC buzz box (not that Thermal Dynamics machines aren't great, just less common). Stick rod run properly is versatile and works well in varying enviroments and applications. You can also easily hook a scratch start TIG torch to it just by changing to straight polarity and buying a torch, lead, flowmeter, and argon bottle. I still recommend using two hands to strike an arc when your learning as it gives you much more control and prevents arcing all over your work. I make a living welding pipe and still use both hands to strike when I'm in a tight spot (arc marks will get your money).
Whoops,, Sorry I just realized I forgot to show the 90$ welder. This is one like it. .
http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-ELECTRI...92528317QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The bid here is 182$,, personally I would go for the 200$AC/DC I showed in the past post.
But if you look around you will find the AC only like I got for a more reasonable price. At one time they were as common as could be. All farm shops seemed to have one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/LINCOLN-ELECTRI...92528317QQcategoryZ113743QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
The bid here is 182$,, personally I would go for the 200$AC/DC I showed in the past post.
But if you look around you will find the AC only like I got for a more reasonable price. At one time they were as common as could be. All farm shops seemed to have one.
rbattelle
TDR MEMBER
A Fine Day for Welding
Gentlemen, I'm all smiles this evening. Had an excellent night of welding practice. A friend who is SLIGHTLY more experienced than me came over to try his hand with my el-cheapo. By "slightly" more experienced I mean he actually was taught by a professional in vocational school 8 years ago and hasn't touched a welder since. I learned a ton of stuff, however, just by watching someone else try to work the magic.
1. Most importantly, striking the arc is NOTHING like striking a match. It is NOT a super-fast skid across the welding material. It's a very slow, methodical, steady motion. By the end of the session I was achieving about a 70% success rate at starting an arc on the second attempt (about a 20% success rate at starting the arc on the first attempt). And this was at the proper current range for the rod size! Woo hoo, no super-high heat necessary!
2. 1/16" rods are very hard to strike. We had far better success with 5/64". My theory is that the 1/16" rods are so tiny that the arc length is extremely short. As a result, even the slightest twitch in your hand forces the rod into direct contact with the workpiece, where it frequently extinguishes the arc and/or sticks the electrode like a magnet. 5/64" rods are actually easier to work with because they're more rigid (transmit less muscle twitch to the rod tip) and the arc length is long enough that you're not constantly contacting the workpiece.
3. We had much better luck striking 6013 than 6011. Although in defense of the 6011 we only had 1/16" rods (which were harder to strike as I mentioned in lesson 2).
4. Steadiness is key. Steady, controlled, deliberate movements to strike and to maintain a nice arc length and feed rate.
A great night for welding. Before tonight I was ready to trash my little welder for a nice AC/DC Hobart unit. Now I see (as everyone else already said) I just needed more practice. I'm going to continue practicing every chance I get with the little guy, then I'll definetly move on up to the larger AC/DC unit.
I know you guys mostly like the Millers and Lincolns, but where I'm from originally Hobart has a pretty good reputation. Their Stickmate LX235AC/160DC seems to offer a bit more power than the Lincoln and Miller offerings in the same size class. [Actually, the Hobart looks absolutely identical to the Miller except for the colors... it's almost as though they were made by the same company].
I love this welding stuff.
Nick - what does the electrode holder look like for a 3/4" rod?
-Ryan
Gentlemen, I'm all smiles this evening. Had an excellent night of welding practice. A friend who is SLIGHTLY more experienced than me came over to try his hand with my el-cheapo. By "slightly" more experienced I mean he actually was taught by a professional in vocational school 8 years ago and hasn't touched a welder since. I learned a ton of stuff, however, just by watching someone else try to work the magic.
1. Most importantly, striking the arc is NOTHING like striking a match. It is NOT a super-fast skid across the welding material. It's a very slow, methodical, steady motion. By the end of the session I was achieving about a 70% success rate at starting an arc on the second attempt (about a 20% success rate at starting the arc on the first attempt). And this was at the proper current range for the rod size! Woo hoo, no super-high heat necessary!
2. 1/16" rods are very hard to strike. We had far better success with 5/64". My theory is that the 1/16" rods are so tiny that the arc length is extremely short. As a result, even the slightest twitch in your hand forces the rod into direct contact with the workpiece, where it frequently extinguishes the arc and/or sticks the electrode like a magnet. 5/64" rods are actually easier to work with because they're more rigid (transmit less muscle twitch to the rod tip) and the arc length is long enough that you're not constantly contacting the workpiece.
3. We had much better luck striking 6013 than 6011. Although in defense of the 6011 we only had 1/16" rods (which were harder to strike as I mentioned in lesson 2).
4. Steadiness is key. Steady, controlled, deliberate movements to strike and to maintain a nice arc length and feed rate.
A great night for welding. Before tonight I was ready to trash my little welder for a nice AC/DC Hobart unit. Now I see (as everyone else already said) I just needed more practice. I'm going to continue practicing every chance I get with the little guy, then I'll definetly move on up to the larger AC/DC unit.
I know you guys mostly like the Millers and Lincolns, but where I'm from originally Hobart has a pretty good reputation. Their Stickmate LX235AC/160DC seems to offer a bit more power than the Lincoln and Miller offerings in the same size class. [Actually, the Hobart looks absolutely identical to the Miller except for the colors... it's almost as though they were made by the same company].
I love this welding stuff.
Nick - what does the electrode holder look like for a 3/4" rod?
-Ryan
Good for you.....
I think you are right... . I recall hearing that miller absorbed hobart a few years ago. As some already said... . AC machines were used a great deal in years past. Technology has gotten better with inverters putting to rest the large diodes and all the heat the machines used to put off.
Here are some things that you will have to juggle as you come along as an apprentice rod burner... .
1 rod angle
2 arc length
3 travel speed
4 hand and arm position
You should, once you get more comfortable, be able to run 7018 3/32 rod on your machine.
Keep going my friend... ... you will have good days and bad... . in welding and in life.
sstefanini, That made me smile..... Arc strikes will get your money. -- For sure.
I think you are right... . I recall hearing that miller absorbed hobart a few years ago. As some already said... . AC machines were used a great deal in years past. Technology has gotten better with inverters putting to rest the large diodes and all the heat the machines used to put off.
Here are some things that you will have to juggle as you come along as an apprentice rod burner... .
1 rod angle
2 arc length
3 travel speed
4 hand and arm position
You should, once you get more comfortable, be able to run 7018 3/32 rod on your machine.
Keep going my friend... ... you will have good days and bad... . in welding and in life.
sstefanini, That made me smile..... Arc strikes will get your money. -- For sure.
they didn't have a holder for it at school, but it was discribed to me as a screw on clamp for the bare electrode end, and you also used a support handle you positioned down the electrode to actually be able to handle the rod... [try holding a yard/meter stick from one end??] lots of amps needed to burn that rod... [i can't find a picture of it anywhere on the 'net either
]
rbattelle
TDR MEMBER
Could one of you experienced guys offer some commentary on the relative differences between AC and DC arc welding? Machinery's handbook seems to imply that DC is best until the current gets high enough to cause "arc blowout" (not entirely sure what that is), after which you must switch to AC to continue to increase current.
Is DC the preferred method? If so, why? Is it easier to strike and hold the arc?
-Ryan
Is DC the preferred method? If so, why? Is it easier to strike and hold the arc?
-Ryan
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
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